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  1. #31
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    Chief,


    You can see from these images that the optics are pretty far forward on these extended rails. Using an optic that required it to be forward mounted is going to force you to decide one way or the other. I really like the non-extended mount on the VIS or CASV, but the same mount shows itself useless if I try to use it with the same optic on an AR15 upper receiver.






  2. #32
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    Precisely, and I mean precisely, the sort of thing that I was after -- thanks!!

    AC

  3. #33
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    I get it now. Since I only main experience is with monolithic rails (until I got MPL MOE). Guess I have been spoiled. Any case my thought process is get stuff to be compatible for multiple platforms even though it doubtful for me to move the optic to another rifle due need of rezeroing. As long as the mount is stable and reliable is my main concern.

  4. #34
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    I built this setup early last year; and well before the madness set in on the market place; and I chose to use the parts listed below because of their product quality, exemplary reputations, and affordability.

    I acquired the Charles Daly Defense® lower assembly from Mike himself, shortly after he launched his Forum Board; and he listed a batch of his lower assemblies on ‘ModulARWeapons’ shortly after we invited him to visit and join our board.

    So far I have only function checked the assembly with ten rounds of live fire; and have yet to dial in the build as I’m still in search of an optic and mount combination … but I’m leaning towards another Gen II DMS-1w/ AD-Recon, as I have this combination paired up on another unit.


    Upper: Mega Machine Shop® A3
    Lower: Charles Daly Defense® w/ LPK
    Rear Sight: Yankee Hill Machine / part # 9680
    Front Sight: Yankee Hill Machine / part #9627
    Handguard: Olympic Arms® / Rifle length F.I.R.S.H.
    Barrel: 16in. 416 Stainless Steel Bull Barrel / OA Part #ARB16
    Chambering: 5.56 NATO
    Twist Rate: 1x9
    Muzzle: 11deg. Crown
    Stock: ACE® AR-15 ARFX Skeleton w/ pad.
    Grip: Ergo Tactical Target / OA Part #F10
    Length/Weight: 34.5in. / 9.5 lbs

    Miscellaneous items:
    Bi-Pod: Shooters Ridge® Rock Mount / 6in. x 9in.
    Bi-Pod: adapter for F.I.R.S.H. OA® Part #BPM
    Rail Covers: Magpul® XTM™ Rail Covers mixed with ladders.
    Barrel Finish: bead blasted to a Satin finish.







  5. #35
    SERT103 Guest
    This is my complete LMT Defender 2000 that I purchased and setup over the summer. I set this one up as my patrol carbine that rides in the trunk. It came from the factory with the SOPMOD stock. This is my first and I find it a very nice addition and saved me a few dollars by getting it pre-installed. The only upgrade I did to the carbine itself is replace the standard CAR buffer with a H buffer.

    For the rail, I decided to choose the Troy Industries MRF-DI. I felt there was no need for a free float rail for this application. It also came with QD swivel holes built into the rail as most others do not. It mounts very solid with 4 allen screws into the bottom and is very secure with no movement.

    The light that I originally had on was a Surefire M951. I decided to sell it off for the M600A scout light. I wanted the durability, battery life, weight reduction and brightness that the LED offered in this package.

    The optic mounted is a Aimpoint ML3 in an ADM 68C. I choose the optic for its renowned reliabilty and extremely long battery life. Since I'm running a fixed BUIS, I liked the cantilever mount to push the optic out as far as possible.


  6. #36
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    I'll add one of mine into the mix. This particular AR is the one that rides with me daily as a patrol carbine. In 1995 I had the opportunity to get a rather good deal on a Colt 6721, which is also known as their AR15-A3 Tactical Carbine. If I recall correctly, the purchase price with a couple mags was just under $700. At the time I was just starting to look at accessories that would make my carbine more user friendly; items such as a white light and EOTech optic. Prior to the 6721 my duty AR had an A1 style upper and lacking the flattop upper, it didn't readily support the addition of optics. The 6721 was a logical choice, as the Colt 6920 wasn't available at the time. Yes, the 6721 has the overweight HBAR, but I wasn't planning on humping it around for hours on end. This is the current configuration.



    Starting at the rear, the old style CAR collapsible stock was updated with a Magpul CTR. I like somewhat longer footprint of the stock, which helps bring the weapon up nice and high. It also locks up solid and I doubt I could break it if I tried. For the longest time, I had a Tactical Tailor 3 point sling. Within the last year, I finally gave in and tried a Gear Sector GS-2P two point sling. This is the sling that I wish I had years ago. It does everyting the 3 point did and with more flexibility. The rear Gear Sector QD snaps right into the CTR stock and a Daniel Defense mount is used on the front rail for the other QD.



    For optics I've gone with an EOtech 512. The Rev F has adequate battery life, especially with the lithium batteries. I had problems with earlier versions, but not so with this one. Squeezed in behind it is a Troy same plane BUIS. The front fixed iron sight was left in place and is my preference for most applications. The standard A2 grip was replaced with a Magpul MIAD with trigger guard. I like the aggressive texture and the trigger guard covers the annoying and painful gap left by the factory part.



    For a rail system, I went with the Daniel Defense 12.0FSP M4 Free Float Handguard. This rail is unique in that it protrudes past the front sight base, which allowed for the light to be mounted far forward. The light itself is an old school Sure Fire that was recently upgraded with an LED emitter. The A2 flash suppressor was replaced with a YHM Phantom 5C1, only because I managed to scrape the heck out of the original one.



    I have other AR that could easily be put into service as my duty carbine,but this one has worked well.

  7. #37
    Topmaul Guest
    I will post a picture shortly when my M-4 style is finished. I am in agreement with that motivational speaker that says always "begin with the end in mind" unfortunately we are not always able to do that. Shooting and guns are a hobby of mine, having a wife, my son in college, a daughter who is into horses and a younger high maintenance daughter, some times money gets a bit tight.

    My use for the rifle is for mostly multi-gun shooting matches, I just don't have the money to pure into a rifle. Early on I found I needed an AR so I picked up a copy of the trading post and thumbed to fire arms, an found an Olympic Arms Plinker for $400 the gun has an A-1 upper and a 16 inch barrel. After getting home I found that Olympic has less than a stellar reputation on the Internet. Still I had the gun and took it to the range and was very impressed with how accurate it was. A few weeks later I went to a 3 gun match and had that barrel smoking it ran flawlessly.

    Sorry this is a long story let me get back to my point this Cast Plinker is the basis of my rifle, I am very happy with the barrel and reliability of the weapon but needed to do a few upgrades about all I did was to add a forward handle and a different stock right now it has a fixed Ace stock. I have tried to dress up the weapon a bit but not much.

    Last year I bought a Stripped SNS Lower and put that together it was my first attempt an an AR I'll build my uber-cool tactical rifle on that chassis as funds are made available from the WAR DEPARTMENT (wife). I find you can do cool things if you just do a little at a time. Which is what I'm doing.

  8. #38
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    Is there a general consensus about where the balance point ought to be on a GP carbine? Looking at many of the setups in this thread, many look very front heavy -- extended rails, lights, heavyish optics, and either a LW CTR or M4 stock at the rear.

    I've been considering making some mods to my current carbine, but to go in the other direction, more rear heavy. Current config is a BM A2 lower, w/A2 stock, mated to a BM 16" Patrolman's carbine upper. The barrel countour is light under the HGs, pretty much std M4 in front of the FSB, except it's 16".

    Eotech 512 and Larue BUIS for optics and BUIS.

    My thoughts were to send the upper off to ADCO and have them shorten barrel to 14.5, recontour to pencil weight from FSB forward, and permanently attach a YHM Phantom.

    I'm not sure about HGs, whether to leave things bone stock, or swap out with a FF rail (Omega or MI two piece). The only addition I'd make would be to add a light, probably a G2 or something along those lines, and I understand there are a number of options for adding short rail sections to composite HGs to accomodate light mounts. I'm not really thinking about adding a VFG or any other front end add ons, so I'm leaning toward keeping things stock. I also like the diameter of the carbine (not M4) HGs, and if I went with a rail, by the time you add covers, you've got a larger diameter forend to grab onto.

    And for the stock, I'm still trying to figure out between a Sully or an ACS, once they're released. ACS is listed at 1.25 lbs, Sully is comparable, but if you add the 1" spacer, then it becomes several ounces heavier. The few times I've tried friends' telescoping stocks, I just keep it at the 2nd position, so I question the need for a telescoping stock, the only value I see is if you go prone, you can lengthen it a couple of notches, but for all other positions, everyone pretty much lives at notch 1 or 2, and this is pretty much equal to a bone stock Sully or a Sully w/added spacer.

    If I go with a lightened front end and a Sully/spacer combo, that would defintely tip the balance more to the rear, completely opposite what many here are posting. I'm just asking for everyone's thoughts, are you happy with the handling characteristics of your current rigs, or would you prefer lighter front ends?

  9. #39
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    Jmart,

    I typed out a long reply, and evidently it didn't upload. I don't think you will find anyone who "wants" a nose heavy carbine, especially if they carry it on a regular basis. However, we are often forced to deal with what we have, and to make the best of it.

    For a patrol carbine, its hard to think about clearing a building without a light, and lights add weight. Some people are going to shoot much better with a VFG, and that adds weight as well. The farther out you push your light, the better your chance of eliminating the shadowing off you barrel. Longer rails help do that, and they also add more weight.

    Balance tends to be more important than simply the weight factor, but like most things, its only part of the story. A stock that fits you well may overshadow the other parts, the same with a pistol grip, or sling. The overall set up of the weapon, and how well it fits you are going to be what matters most.
    Last edited by Stickman; 2 February 2009 at 19:21.

  10. #40
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    For a light carbine I went with the following (pretty much stock)

    Lower: Magpul MPLA - Great lower, came stock with the MPL MOE. Love the right button for bolt release.

    Grip: Magpul MOE (stock)
    Debating whether to change it out for my Falcon Enterprise Ergo grip. Probably keep it stock.

    Trigger: CMMG 2 stage
    Changed out the stock trigger.. can't stand it. Been treated to the good life of the Geissele that I couldn't stand standard stock triggers. I placed in the CMMG 2 stage, which is a great trigger, until I get a replacement Geissele.

    Upper: Noveske Upper (stock)
    All I know about this is that it's forged by Cerro Forge.

    Barrel: 14.5" with pinned FH (stock)
    Noveske has great barrel, no changing this one. The FH is a AAC blackout with threads for a M4-2000 suppressor. Very nice touch by Noveske.

    Charging Handle: PRi Gas Buster
    Evaluating it for gas blowback.

    Handguard: Magpul MOE (stock)
    Great handguard. Was originally thinking of changing it out for a rail system.. but considering the barrel was pinned and the MOE really feels like a sold handguard. I'm keeping it the way it was made to be.

    Optics: Aimpoint T-1
    Since this is to be a light gun, I felt the T-1 would suit it's purpose. I plan to use this with either the Eotech magnifier or a NV scope.

    BCG: National Match Y/M, Spike's Tactical
    Great BCG. Easy to clean being chrome. Good quality build so very reliable. And very cool Spike's Tactical spider logo instead of the standard Y/M logo. (on order)

    Stock: Magpul CTR
    Changed the MOE stock to the CTR stock since it has push button holes and has a extra locking mechanism to keep it from moving.. but it was mostly changed for the push button. The MOE feels just as sturdy as the CTR.

    Magazines: Exclusively Magpul w/ Ranger Plate
    What can I say.. Magpul makes a great product. Added Ranger Plates to make it easier to pull out of pouches.

    Backup Site: Noveske/Troy rear backup site (stock)

    Other:
    I was thinking of adding some rails to be able to put on a VFG and/or flashlight.
    Last edited by Ryo; 3 February 2009 at 18:16.

  11. #41
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    I like 'em simple



    Colt 6933, SBR version of the Colt Commando.
    11.5" Lt Weight 1/7 barrel

    Aimpoint CompM4
    So much battery life, I leave it one all the time and change the battery out every January 01

    Surefire M952XM
    Bright white light with plenty of throw

    Advanced Armament Corp M4-2000 Suppressor
    Makes the rifle "Hearing Safe", no "Ears" needed

    Other points of interest include the Blueforce/Vickers Two Point Sling, Surefire M73 Rail, ARMS 40L BUIS, TD Pistol Grip, Magpul CTR Stock and a supply of PMAG magazines
    Factory Certified Armorer: Benelli, Beretta, Bushmaster, Colt, Glock, H&K, Remington, Ruger, SigArms, Smith & Wesson, Springfield Armory

  12. #42
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    Ryo, I love the MagPul lower, I fiddled with one at the SHOT Show and they are very nice and bound to be a collectors item I would think. Is it the one with the asian girl giving the bird on the right side?

    My pesronal gun is a LWRCI M6A2
    I chose a piston gun for the added benefits of less heat and dirt/debry/gas in the bolt area. Besides, a million AK's and FAL's can't be wrong? Can they...
    -Barrel is 16" - no questions on legality and accurate while still be compactish.
    -Railed forend came with the gun, I don't have anything to hang on it yet but a Larue FUG and/or weapon light is in the future. Magpul Foliage rail panels.
    -Non windowed PMags for reliability and at the time they were inexpensive and plentiful.
    -Ergo Grip from Falcon Inds. in Foliage. It's the soft one and feels great in the hand
    -Replaced the CTR with a Vltor Foliage EMod for storage and cheek weld purposes. In truth it's mostly for looks. I plan to get a MagPul UBR soon.
    -GG&G Spring Acutated BUIS front and back. Prob gonna change em out for some Troys.
    -Aimpoint Comp M4s in a Larue 'tall' mount. The M4s cause I wanted a multipurpose optic that leaned torwards CQB for home defense purposes. I also wanted the extended battery life and ease of battery replacement(a single AA) the M4s offered. I don't like where the battery is on the M4 so I went with the M4s. The Larue mount for there outstanding reputaion and customer service, plus I got some Dillo Rub and a Dillo TBED to boot! Thats how she stands at the moment.
    [IMG][/IMG]
    Last edited by JustMatt; 8 February 2009 at 09:31.

  13. #43
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    Matt,

    Magpul lowers are definitely going to fall into that "collector's item" category, and the only way for the masses to get their hands on one is to be fortunate enough to pick up one of the limited run Noveske/Magpul rifles -- which Ryo and I both did on the latest MOE release. To date, this Noveske/Magpul collaboration has resulted in the release of exactly 100 of these A series lowers. More may be in the offing, but how many more -- and when -- is anyone's guess. There are no guarantees.

    The China Doll lower (C series) is not available at any price, nor in conjunction with any particular run of rifles. It is reserved strictly for gift purposes from Magpul execs to selected individuals who have made "substantive contributions" of one sort or another in the eyes of Magpul management. In other words, you may someday be able to earn one if you're extremely fortunate, but you will never be able to purchase one. I believe Stickman has a bit more about this lower posted in his WEVO Guide to Billet Lowers.

    AC

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustMatt View Post
    I chose a piston gun for the added benefits of less heat and dirt/debry/gas in the bolt area. Besides, a million AK's and FAL's can't be wrong? Can they...
    Perhaps not, and while I'm not second-guessing your selection, it is probably worth noting that the AR is neither an AK nor a FAL. Here's what John Noveske had to say about the matter, once upon a time ...

    Also, we should mention the poor choice of platform for the piston conversion on a round receiver bore as found on the M16/M4 system. All other piston type systems out there utilize a railed receiver design, like the M14, AK-47, M249, FAL and so on. The round receiver bore design used on the M4 is only acceptable for the standard op system. The carrier and bolt expand on axis with the bore under the normal gas impingement cycle, but on a piston gun, you run into off center impulse issues with carrier tilt and incorrectly designed carrier contact points. Some designs attempt to address the carrier tilt problem with over sized carrier tails and rollers. I do not believe the receiver extension should be used in this manner. I know many people are very happy with their piston weapons. This is not meant as a knock on the piston conversion systems out there, but as a philosophical dialogue focused the new physiological relationships applied to the M16/M4 platform through the introduction of an operating system which has traditionally been applied to receivers with rails for the bolt and/or carrier. I would rather see an entirely new weapon system designed for the piston from the ground up.
    My point? Pistons are certainly worthy of consideration, but I always pause a bit when they are represented as the ultimate solution to the ARs woes, because the basic geometry of the weapon just doesn't really seem to support that assertion. Not that you ever made such a claim, of course, but I think that we're all served by a better understanding of this issue, regardless of what we happen to favor.

    AC

  15. #45
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    No, I wish I had the China Doll. I would definitely pay mroe to get that one.

    I know someone who has one, and they told me roughly what Army Chief said. China dolls (MPLC) will never be sold unless one of the people who received it decides to sell it. Highly doubtful anyone will sell it.

    As for pistons, they have their own problems, but I think they are working it out. I think the AR platform should get a redesign if they are trying to fix the shortcomings... oh wait.. they are.

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