Explain your AR15 layout...

[Hmac]

A couple of years ago I elected to build a couple of SBRs after shooting one and appreciating how easily they swung around. I rarely shoot beyond 50 yards. I went with 11.5 inch barrels based on Paul Buffoni's observation that that seems to be the sweet spot for gas system reliability.

On the one that I built first, I took a kind of "spare no expense" approach as well as paying no attention to the weight. I used a DD Lite rail because it's solid and light. I put (expensive) Troy sights on it. The front flip-up is mounted back enough that I can slide on a TLR-1 or a G2 on a Gear Sector offset. Also an RDS because I think that that's a must-add accessory on this type of rifle. I went with a BattleComp because I put one on my Light Recce and found it helpful in mitigating muzzle deviation. I suspected it was going to bark more on the shorter rifle, and it does, but I wear good ear protection and don't find it intrusive. BADASS ambi safety because I prefer to use my index finger to flip the safety back on - I've ultimately settled on crank on left side, stubby on the right side. Giessele SSA trigger because I factory-added it on a whim when ordering the Noveske Light Recce and really liked it a lot. At SHOT a couple of years ago, the Giessele booth was selling the things dirt cheap out of the back of their truck and I picked up a couple. Over the years I came to hate 3-point slings, switched to single-point and came to hate those. The current sling attachment that I use was an evolutionary process and set up to keep it from interfering with my support hand. Jeff Gonzales recommended that arrangement to me a couple of years ago, stock and forearm, I tried it and liked it. I put a Magpul trigger guard on it because this is Minnesota and I sometimes need something more robust than shooting gloves. The AFG...well, this was back when Magpul was the bomb and I drank the KoolAid. Since then, as the fad has subsided, I've tried other fore grip arrangements including a Gear Sector stubby and Gear sector hand stop, but for some reason on this rifle with this rail, the AFG just seems to work the best for me, so I succumbed and resigned myself to occasionally being perceived as a Magpul fanboy. I can't remember why I chose the iMod stock. I've been using them on other rifles since the modstock came out and just got used to them, I suppose.



I do have a Noveske NSR 9 rail on backorder at a couple of places, thinking that my support hand grip may work better with the smaller diameter forearm.

The NSR 9 that I backordered in December finally showed up the other day. Install was straightforward, although it did take every bit of 80 ft-lbs to get the barrel nut timed correctly, even after selecting the best end of the nut.

I like the tubular rail concept a lot. The DD Lite was a little bulky for my grip and the NSR suits me much better. Plus, the lighter weight of the NSR 9, especially now that I could get rid of the AFG, makes for a nicer-handling rifle.

After installing the NSR, I sighted in the Eotech and irons yesterday. I was a lilttle surprised at how little readjustment they required. Both the Eotech and the Troys were only about an inch low at 50 yards. I think I'm going to reinstall the front sight a little farther back so I can mount either of my light options (Gear Sector or TLR-1s).

I shot about 200 rounds over 1/2 hour without gloves. No rail panels installed. I gotta say...it gets a little warm up there at the front. Long shooting sessions such as a typical carbine course are going to want gloves, or at least install the rail panels IMHO. I have the rail panels, but I'm kinda waiting for a broader array of options.



I was a little apprehensive disassembling the gas system having had struggles with pinned gas blocks and FSBs in the past. As it turned out, the Rainier-installed pin drifted right out and the set screws only needed a little persistent persuasion. The VLTOR gas block wasn't installed exactly vertical to the barrel when it was pinned, but it doesn't contact the inside of the rail so no big deal.




/

[~~Mutt~~]

Will post l8R

[Deckard]

Why did you choose those parts over other parts you considered?

[Stickman]

Why did you choose those parts over other parts you considered?

That is the driving reason for the thread, for people to explain why they went with the components they did for their weapon. The parts listing is nice, but doesn't fit the mission for this one.

I'm with Deck. I would guess you are in a post ban state for that layout.

[~~Mutt~~]

That is the driving reason for the thread, for people to explain why they went with the components they did for their weapon. The parts listing is nice, but doesn't fit the mission for this one.

I'm with Deck. I would guess you are in a post ban state for that layout.

Are you referring to my post? Hard to tell since there is no quote or member named..

[Deckard]

Are you referring to my post? Hard to tell since there is no quote or member named..

Sorry, I hit reply on your post seems like it did not work. We are talking to you, like Stick said this thread is not just for a list of parts but also the reason why you chose certain parts over others.

It helps readers with their decisions in a market flooded with widgets.

[~~Mutt~~]

Ok.. I retracted till I go back through my notes on why I bought certain items for the AR. I can start by saying I chose the Olympic AR 15 because back in 1985...it was an affordable and great gun...and still is today

[Aragorn]

I built this carbine with SHTF in mind. While I can only speculate as to what I may or may not encounter during/post SHTF, I do know that I can only carry one rifle at a time with which to deal with such encounters, and that I'll probably have to carry it for long periods of time. Bearing that in mind, I set out to build a rifle that was reliable, lightweight, and would serve me well from 0-600 meters with a focus on close to medium range engagements. I also wanted it to be ultra smooth and flat shooting.

This is the fruit of that effort.



The barrel is a 14.5" mid-length Spike's/FN cold hammer forged. This was purchased before all the craziness started, so at the time I had lots of options. The Spike's, Noveske, and Centurion barrel seem all to be made to pretty much the same TDP, with M249 grade material and chrome lining, and being cold hammer forged. I also just as easily could have gotten a Daniel Defense or BCM in the pencil profile variety. However, I prefer the medium contour barrels as I feel they deal with heat better, and when I'm cranking out rounds in a hurry, that matters. At that point, so much the better just to go with a light machine gun grade barrel. I got the Spike's because it comes cheaper than a Noveske or a Centurion. I went 14.5" middy because they feel smoother than a 16", weigh less, are obviously shorter and generally better handling. I did fight with myself over whether or not I wanted the marginal gain in velocity of a 16", but ultimately the benefits of the 14.5" won me over.

Bringing the barrel to legal length is a pined and welded Battlecomp 1.5 in stainless. This was another tough call for me as I knew I wouldn't be able to (cheaply) change it. It was a toss up between this and a Micor, which is another device I've had wonderful luck with. I went with the BC knowing it would keep the rifle flatter than the micor, and part of the goal here was to keep things flat and smooth. I went stainless because it looks badass and breaks up the rifle outline better than black. I'm still not sure I made the right choice with the BC, as the micor seemed to give at least 85% of the BC in terms of muzzle rise mitigation, and did it while suppressing flash and not being blasty. Also on another rifle, when I switched from a PWS FSC 556 to the micor, the rifle gained about 1/4 MOA accuracy across the board with most types of ammo. Doing it over I'd take the micor, but as it stands I'll settle for the flatter, softer recoiling BC.

The forend is the stellar Noveske NSR 13.5. This was a part that I had no debate over. It's smaller, thinner, and lighter than pretty much everything else and I love that the keymods allow panels to lay extremely flat. I went 13.5" for a longer sight radius and to be able to grip further out on the rifle. A keymod rail section is attached to the front 6 o'clock to allow for my knights vertical foregrip. I found the KAC foregrip as used surplus at a gunshow for 10$ and I really like it, mostly for the fact that it is smooth and well contoured at the top. I use a thumb over bore split grip and the KAC is more comfortable to me than either a tango down or DD. Keymod panels and LaRue index clips keep things comfortable as the forend gets hot. Keymod panels are foliage and FDE for rifle breakup. A Surefire mini-scout is also mounted up front in roughly the 10:30 position. It is also FDE to add breakup. And because it's sexy. It is mounted in a Haley Strategic SBR Thorn-tail mount, which is sitting on a Magpul MOE rail section. The MOE rail was cheaper than a keymoad rail, and works great. This also puts the light bezel about dead even with the end of the Battlecomp. This is nice because the lens is forward of the redirected muzzle blast. An Inforce light probably would have been used if I hadn't already had the Surefire, purely due to cost.

The upper is a FN overrun that Rainier had on sale some time ago. The thought process went something like this: "Cheap? FN? Yes." And it was so.

The BCG is a Spike's Tactical NiB. My previous experience was with a Failzero, and I loved how easy it was to clean, that it made the rifle feel smoother, and the looks didn't hurt either. That was however all mostly bonus, as it was also HP/MPI, shot peened, and carpenter steel. Had it not been that I would have bought a BCM. Seeing how it was, I went with the Spike's version as it was cheaper than the Failzero. It still gets froglube. I also put in an LWRC NiB advanced cam pin. This is supposed to eliminate drag from the cam pin on the receiver. I honestly can't feel a difference, but there is no scarring inside the upper so I assume it is doing its job.



The charging handle is a first generation BCM Gunfighter Mod 4. I like the size of the Mod 4 and this was before the Rainier Raptor came along. I would have gone with the BCM anyways as it's cheaper and I don't need an ambi CH. The BCM was chosen over a legacy CH for its toughness.

The lower is a Noveske Gen 2 forged flared lower. I got this to help facilitate a speed reload under stress and because I knew it would be in spec. It is very clean and has a nice aesthetic. I built it up using LWRC small parts, a BAD-ASS selector, and a Geissele SSA-E trigger. The BAD-ASS is used because it is a cleanly machined part with a smooth and positive throw. The SSA-E I got on sale having only ever felt an SSA. It was an eye opening experience when I first dropped the hammer on it and I found myself wondering if it wasn't too light for it's application on this rifle, but I have since come to love it and prefer it over the SSA, as it really shines when taking a long range shot. I also run a B.A.D. lever as I feel it is a wasted advantage (in terms of speed) if I don't.

The grip is from Umbrella, and while I really felt dirty knowing I was helping fund the creation of the T-Virus, I bought it anyways. I liked the angle of the MOE K and the BCM Gunfighter, but the Umbrella fills the hand better while keeping the same grip angle. I attempted to stipple the sides in Simonich styling, but you really can't tell by looking. It still feels great though, very grippy without being overly aggressive. Smoother lines and lava rock stippling was applied to the front. I also had to break the corners by the trigger guard. I am extremely satisfied with how it turned out, and can at least take satisfaction in knowing that if the zombies ever do come, I'll be using Umbrella's own tech against them.



I used the Vltor A5 system on this carbine to help keep things smooth and flat. I installed a Springco green spring as preventative maintenance and to give myself the widest envelope of reliability. When putting this together I was concerned about how well the longer, heavier system would work on a 14.5" middy, but have since been put at ease as it has shown to be at least as reliable as running a T2 or H buffer all while being smoother. The stock is a FDE Magpul MOE and is wearing the extended buttpad. I went with the MOE because it was cheap, plenty comfortable, and a little stock rattle never bothered me. The buttpad is used because I find the contour and clipped toe to be very comfortable.

Optics and irons. This part was actually the biggest challenge for me in this build. The catch here was the desire to be able to quickly and accurately engage targets from 0-600 meters and finding an optic that would do that. I've shot Aimpoints, Eotechs, both with magnifiers and not, Acogs, and at one point owned a Nightforce NXS 1-4x. Aimpoints and Eotechs were outstanding up close but came up shy on longer shots. The Nightforce was nifty, but was heavy and still left me wanting up close. I discovered I preferred Acogs for magnification, BDC, and simplicity over the NF. Despite that, even the Acog wasn't perfect having excessive bloom in some situations and being too dim in others, and still lacked the blazing speed of a red dot up close. I even considered going with an Acog and an offset Micro T-1, but that limited me to one side and added weight. Thinking about what I may encounter during SHTF, I concluded I'd probably be best served by having more speed up close where I'd likely be dealing with people, even if it came with the sacrifice of precision at distance. This rig wasn't exactly a precision set up anyways, and I was more concerned with making effective hits fast than tiny little groups. I also happened to already own an Aimpoint Comp M4 so that's what it got. The fact that it takes a common battery is also a nice thing when thinking of materials being harder to come across. I still however wanted to be able to take a long shot, so I rezero'd at 300 yards knowing I'd never be more than 1.5-2" high or low from zero yards out to that. While hunting for iron sights I rediscovered the KAC micro sights. This looked like the answer I was looking for. The front has a national match thin front sight post and tool free adjustment, while the rear can be quickly dialed in for 200-600 meter shots. The thin front sight post is great for seeing (read: not obscuring as much) those far away targets, and while not exactly driving nails, I can make good hits out to those distances using the irons. While some people may think it's backwards to use an optic for up close and irons for distance, in this case it's just peachy and gives me what I want. My red dot lets me retain my speed while still being good out to 300, and I can deploy the irons for shooting beyond that. I typically leave the rear sight dialed in for 300 so it co-witnesses with my optic upon deployment.



Not pictured is the sling. I run a FDE Magpul MS-2 that plugs into a Noveske endplate. I've yet to really find a sling I love, and I may yet go to a dedicated 2 point, but this works for now.

Overall this is a great setup and I seem to have achieved everything I wanted to with it. It's super smooth to shoot, staying very flat with almost no muzzle deviation. It almost reminds me of a video game, where you hear it and the screen shakes a little, but you don't feel much. I was a bit surprised when I weighed it with a loaded magazine and it came to 8lbs 15.5oz. So call it 9lbs. It certainly doesn't feel that heavy.

Anyways, thanks for reading. Let me know what you think.

[thatdamngoat]

Damn, Aragorn, it's like you reached in to my brain and pulled out the direction that I am going with my rifle. Love it.

[MoxyDave]

Nice gun and write-up. You explained your choices well and I think they make sense.

[browcs]

Aragorn...outstanding synopsis of the "why" for your layout. Well done and thanks for posting.

[Aragorn]

Thanks guys

[Deaj]

Carbine #1:




Carbine #2



These two carbines are built to be a configuration/parts match with the 'Two is one, one is none' philosophy in mind. They started out quite different though.

Carbine #1 was initially purchased as a Smith & Wesson M&P15T (earlier Troy equipped model, in-house production). The M&P15T changed over time while I experimented with furniture to find what wouldl best work for me (I have a neurological condition that results in moderate to severe joint pain everywhere so finding something I can comfortably handle and use effectively hasn't been easy). As carbine #2 was being re-purposed (covered in the next paragraph) the M&P15 had changed significantly. The bolt carrier group and buffer had been swapped out for a Spikes M16 BCG and a Spikes ST-T2 buffer. A BCE BattleComp muzzle brake had been installed as well. This helped smooth out the recoil impulse and reduced muzzle flip a bit (stock carbine-length M4 profile barrel is over-gassed). I installed a BCM Gunfighter Mod 4 charging handle (big improvement over a standard CH). The safety selector was swapped out for a Battle Arms Development 45 degree ambi selector. I'd initially swapped the stock out for a Magpul CTR then eventually swapped that out for a VLTOR IMOD - both were incrementally more comfortable than the last. The cheek weld with the IMOD was an improvement for me. A Magpul MIAD grip (medium backstrap) and enhanced trigger guard were installed significantly improving comfort and shooting with gloved hands. The (heavy) stock Troy MRF quad-rail handguard was swapped for a Centurion Arms C4 12" quad-rail. This reduced weight up front significantly and allowed for a more forward grip. I installed a Magpul RVG vertical grip which worked well as a hand stop for me. For optics I installed an EOtech 512. Weapon light was a Surefire G2 LED in a VLTOR offset mount. I used Magpul XTM's and ladder covers for the rails. Lastly, I added a Troy padded adjustable 2-point sling with QD swivels.

Carbine #2 started out as a SPR build. I found I much preferred my Remington 700 SPS Tactical (.223 Rem) for precision shooting so I re-purposed the SPR into a fighting carbine for my son to use while he still lives at home. Carbine #1 had been mostly sorted out when this decision was made so I swapped in parts that matched those I was sure would remain as permanent parts installed on carbine #1 (Centurion rail, Spikes BCG & buffer, MIAD grip & enhanced trigger guard, BAD ambi safety, weapon light & mount, Troy folding sights - HK profile front sight, carbine #1 has an A2 profile front sight). I swapped the 18" stainless barrel out for a 16" mid-length gassed Palmetto State Armory (FN) special lightweight profile barrel with a VLTOR micro gas block and an A2 flash hider. I also swapped the Geissele SD-E two stage trigger for an ALG QMS single stage mil-spec trigger. An EOtech 512 optic was installed. Since I was building this carbine for my son to use I let him pick furniture that would best fit him. He chose a B5 enhanced SOPMOD stock and a Knights Armament vertical grip (these choices were made because he'd been using a similarly equipped airsoft AR for some dry drills in prior years and found these worked well for him). He also wanted a lower receiver end plate with a left-side loop to accomodate his Magpul MS3 single-point sling so I installed a VLTOR SASE-2 plate (this has an elongated loop that accommodates the MS3 nicely). XTM and ladder covers were installed on the handguard.

At some point the EOtech's reticle and sight frame began to appear too 'busy' to both my son and I. This became increasingly more distracting over time for both of us - me more so than my son but neither of us much cared for it. This along with the short battery life and weight led us to choose a different optic for the carbines. With all of these considerations we felt the Aimpoint T1 Micro 2 MOA red dot would make for an ideal replacement. Both of us prefer an absolute co-witness to a lower 3rd so we chose American Defense absolute co-witness QD riser mounts. The T1 Micro's have turned out to be a significant change for the better.

Handling and shooting over time with the two carbines after #2 was completed several things really stood out for me. The lightweight barrel profile made a noticeable difference in handling and balance (for the better). I found the ALG trigger to be an improvement over carbine #1's stock trigger. Over time I found the SOPMOD type stock to be more comfortable than the IMOD. Both my son and I also found the XTM and ladder rail covers bulky and unnecessary as both of us most often shoot wearing gloves (the Centurion rails have no sharp corners/edges so handling is comfortable with bare hands as well). These observations led to some final changes.

I swapped out carbine #1's IMOD stock for a B5 enhanced SOPMOD stock and and #2's Knights VFG for a Magpul forward vertical grip. I swapped out carbine #1's standard lower receiver end plate for a VLTOR SASE-2 so that a single-point sling may be used. I changed #1's trigger to an ALG QMS trigger group. I also built a new bare upper receiver assembly for carbine #1 using an Aero Precision stripped upper receiver, a BCM upper parts kit, a mid gassed Palmetto State Armory pencil profile 16" barrel, PSA barrel nut & gas tube, a Spikes 0.625" diameter micro gas block, and an A2 flash hider (I wanted to do away with the BattleComp's increased side concussion). I moved the handguard/rail, sights, optic, light/mount, charging handle, and vertical grip over to the new upper and installed a spare Spikes BCG (moved the original BCG to spares). Lastly, we removed the rail covers from both carbines.

Aside from the barrel profiles, front sight profiles, and gas blocks these two carbines are essentially the same. Carbine #1 is a bit lighter out front but this difference is marginal in practical use. Balance is nearly the same for both carbines. In handling and in practical use they are nearly identical. The differences in front sight profile have no impact in practical use - my son simply prefers the HK profile. Both carbines can accommodate either sling (Troy 2-point and Magpul single-point). Both carbines are light (#1 weighs 7 lb, 9 oz, #w weighs 7 lb, 14 ox - weights measured with unloaded 30-round PMAG) and comfortable for me so it takes me longer to fatigue now than it did with any prior configuration. Goal achieved.



Specs:
●Carbine #1: S&W M&P15 lower receiver, Carbine #2: SA&A (Aero) lower receiver, w/ BCM lower parts kits
●ALG Quality Mil-Spec (QMS) trigger groups
●Battle Arms Development 45° throw ambidextrous safety selectors (Standard / Short+Thin levers)
●Spikes Tactical lower receiver extensions
●Spikes Tactical ST-T2 heavy buffers and carbine buffer springs
●B5 enhanced SOPMOD stocks
●Magpul MIAD pistol grips
●Magpul enhanced trigger guards
●VLTOR SASE-2 lower receiver end plates w/ single point sling mount
●Aero Precision stripped upper receivers w/ BCM upper parts kits
●Spikes Tactical M16 bolt carrier groups
●BCM/VLTOR Gunfighter Mod4 charging handles
●PSA 5.56 1/7 CL 16" barrels w/ mid-length gas system (Carbine #1: pencil profile, Carbine #2: special lightweight profile)
●A2 flash hiders
●PSA mid-length gas tubes
●Carbine #1: Spikes Tactical 0.625" diameter micro gas block, Carbine #2: VLTOR 0.750" diameter micro gas block
●Centurion Arms 12" C4 free-float quad-rail handguards
●Troy folding Battle Sights (Carbine #1: A2 style front sight profile, Carbine #2: HK front sight profile)
●Aimpoint T1 Micro red dot sights on American Defense absolute co-witness QD riser mounts
●SureFire G2/KX4/Z59 LED weapon lights in VLTOR Scout offset light mounts
●Magpul RVG forward vertical grips

[Dos Cylindros]

This is my personaly owned duty gun.

[URL=http://s913.photobucket.com/user/4N20/media/8acecc0a6028691c18592bb00fe61747_zps58da6233.jpg.h tml][/

[Deaj]

This is my personaly owned duty gun.



The lower is a.....

Nice build and great writeup!