Red Dot/Holographic Site discussion

[DutyUse]

I agree. Which is why I'll end up selling the syrac equipped upper and using a more robust system like the switchblock Noveske uses

[Deadwing]

Lively debate going on here.

At what point do these 'issues' sort of no longer become 'issues'? Obviously it has an effect on shorter barrels more than anything...seemingly the shorter you go the more potential for problems.

Based on the discussion here I could say that it sounds like once you go sub-11 inches that's where it might get complicated.

That said with an 11.5 or a 12.5 what are the odds of having a problem?

From my limited experience, it's really a non-issue. I own SBR uppers with the following barrels: a Noveske 7.5", a Daniel Defense 10.3", a Noveske 10.5" (with Switchblock), a BCM 11.5", and a Noveske 12.5". All run flawlessly on lowers using an H2 buffer, and with a variety of ammunition. The overgassed Daniel Defense and BCM will both cycle reliably using an H buffer, but the DD really beats up the brass in that configuration. I haven't run/tested the others with an H buffer.

[Hmac]

I have a lot of SBR uppers. 99% of them run well with an H2 buffer, nothing else. I have switchblocks on several, but those are basically the only adjustable gas blocks I run.

I just shot a weekend carbine course with Larry Vickers using my 11.5 SBR with PMC .223 ammo. I found that my H2 buffer cycled fine, but was occasionally not locking back on an empty mag. I switched it over to an H buffer and no problem. Never been an issue with any 5.56 ammo I've put through that gun. I also note that PMC, pretty as it is, does tend to vary a bit from lot to lot. Bolt not locking back was one symptom, but I've noted that on chronometry as well.

[tact]

I'd blame Hamburgler Vickers....and the Fireclean drooping from those burgers..

[alamo5000]

Honestly before I start building an SBR I should probably find someone local that has one that will let me go shooting with them. That will answer a whole lot of my little lingering questions...I really don't want to go through the hassles of buying all the stuff and building an upper only to 'wish' that I had gone shorter or if I go short that I wish I went a little longer etc.

At the end of the day if I don't buy junk stuff I am confident that I can make the rifle operate the way it's supposed to.

After looking around a little and seeing various opinions my gut tells me to wait and see on that MRO from Trijicon. If after I see some real world reviews on it and it turns out to be awesome I am inclined to possibly go that route.

I would still like to try em before I buy em though. I am thinking in a very short time of some hands on I will know for sure if I want to go Trijicon or Aimpoint. Right now though those are my short listed ones.

I have some thoughts on the mini red dots, MRO or T1 vs say a bigger optic like the SRS... but I don't know if I am right or not. However I have noted that the SRS isn't really on anybody's list.

[DutyUse]

If your around the Kentucky area your more then welcome to shoot any of ours

[alamo5000]

If your around the Kentucky area your more then welcome to shoot any of ours

Sounds very awesome. I am in the Houston area... I am about an hour north of downtown Houston. I certainly don't mind driving a bit to take a look see. I might not even really need to shoot em to be honest... just do some side by side comparisons would kind of help. I kind of want to see how they feel with a suppressor and without... just so that I know.

[DutyUse]

Sorry bro no suppressor yet. Working on one NFA at a time lol

[alamo5000]

Sorry bro no suppressor yet. Working on one NFA at a time lol

Me too!! LOL

I am hoping I will get my first in about a month....

I am sure I can find someone around the area that will let me fondle their SBRs for a little bit... I will probably wind up dropping good coin on my build so I think its pretty wise to at least try to cop a feel before I start forking out the dough.

[DutyUse]

Meh. I had never handled one before I built our 3. I sincerely doubt you'll build one (in any configuration) and hate it lol. You might figure out what you'd want to change for the next build tho.. If you have a feeling you'll like em just go for it. Your never going to build the "perfect gun", you'll just narrow down what you like on each rifle you have experience with

[alamo5000]

I have an SBR related question... I didn't really want to start a new thread to ask it... it's a bit off topic of the thread itself though.

I understand once you get the SBR stamped and all that as long as you stay in your state with it there should be no problems.

I also understand that if I wanted to haul my SBR off to some other state technically I am supposed to file forms with the ATF before going. Those forms alone can take a very long time to get 'across state lines' approval.

Here is my question though, say I form 1 and build my rifle... but a few years from now I get an awesome job offer in a different state.

Can I take the upper off the rifle and take it with me just so long as I don't put them back together until I get that approval letter for transport (or address change)? (this is assuming SBRs are legal where I go to)

Also what if I stick a 16" upper on an SBR'ed lower and take that to another state? Legal or no? Isn't the lower the part that is considered the NFA item or is it the entire rifle?

[Aberration79]

Nope. The registered part is an NFA item no matter what you do. You could strip that lower bear.

[SINNER]

Actually NFA weapons are the ENTIRE weapon. That's why it has caliber and barrel length on the form. Changing uppers on a NFA registered lower is a gray area at best. By the letter of the law it's illegal. BATFE has given an interpretation that a temporary change is OK but a permanent change requires written notification be made to the BATFE. Placing a 16" barrel on a SBR'ed lower does not make it non SBR'ed and you must still fill out the 5320.20 form to travel across state lines.

[Deadwing]

With regards to transporting an NFA item out of state, as others have said, a form 5320.20 must be filled out and approved by the ATF to transport said NFA items across state lines. A separate form is required for each state you plan on transporting the NFA item to. But as i understand it, separate form isn't needed for states you travel through on the way to your destination so long as you don't make any stops in those states (i.e. you're traveling from Texas to Arizona via New Mexico, you'd only need a form for Arizona). Knowing the way the government works, i'd probably fill out a form for NM as well, using the address of a hotel along my rote of travel, just as a CYA. The form 5320.20 can be good for up to one year, and used to transport the NFA item between two locations, or only one way (such as moving to a new state).

As far as configuration changes go, switching from the 11.5" upper that's on your Form 1 to a 12.5" (or any other length for that matter, SBR or not), no notification is required. From the ATF opinion letters i've read, they've basically said that due to the modularity inherent in it's design, any change in configuration to an AR-15 is temporary (notable exceptions being converting it to a machine gun, or turning the lower you bought as a rifle in to a pistol). And if you decide the SBR game isn't your cup of tea, you can request (in writing) that your SBR'd lower be removed from the NFA registry. You can then slap a non-NFA upper on it and then freely transport it from state to state (with notable exceptions).

[DutyUse]

With regards to transporting an NFA item out of state, as others have said, a form 5320.20 must be filled out and approved by the ATF to transport said NFA items across state lines. A separate form is required for each state you plan on transporting the NFA item to. But as i understand it, separate form isn't needed for states you travel through on the way to your destination so long as you don't make any stops in those states (i.e. you're traveling from Texas to Arizona via New Mexico, you'd only need a form for Arizona). Knowing the way the government works, i'd probably fill out a form for NM as well, using the address of a hotel along my rote of travel, just as a CYA. The form 5320.20 can be good for up to one year, and used to transport the NFA item between two locations, or only one way (such as moving to a new state).

As far as configuration changes go, switching from the 11.5" upper that's on your Form 1 to a 12.5" (or any other length for that matter, SBR or not), no notification is required. From the ATF opinion letters i've read, they've basically said that due to the modularity inherent in it's design, any change in configuration to an AR-15 is temporary (notable exceptions being converting it to a machine gun, or turning the lower you bought as a rifle in to a pistol). And if you decide the SBR game isn't your cup of tea, you can request (in writing) that your SBR'd lower be removed from the NFA registry. You can then slap a non-NFA upper on it and then freely transport it from state to state (with notable exceptions).

I didn't know that bit about removal. Good info like always