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  1. #31
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    Pardon me if I've missed something along the way, but how is an Afghan barrel compatible with a LMT MRP upper? It was my impression that only the VLTOR VIS allowed the use of standard barrels, whereas the LMT requires proprietary modifications in that regard.

    For this reason, among others, I would favor the VIS if a mono-/polyithic upper was to be selected.

    AC

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Army Chief View Post
    Pardon me if I've missed something along the way, but how is an Afghan barrel compatible with a LMT MRP upper? It was my impression that only the VLTOR VIS allowed the use of standard barrels, whereas the LMT requires proprietary modifications in that regard.

    For this reason, among others, I would favor the VIS if a mono-/polyithic upper was to be selected.

    AC
    You didn't miss a thing! I did! I wasn't very thorough and forgot about their barrel mods. I stand corrected, thanks AC
    Last edited by Uglyduck; 17 February 2009 at 07:18.
    -Mitch-

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Army Chief View Post
    Pardon me if I've missed something along the way, but how is an Afghan barrel compatible with a LMT MRP upper? It was my impression that only the VLTOR VIS allowed the use of standard barrels, whereas the LMT requires proprietary modifications in that regard.

    For this reason, among others, I would favor the VIS if a mono-/polyithic upper was to be selected.

    AC

    The LMT MRP does use propriertary barrels, but they have such a wide selection now that it no longer a negative against the MRP.

  4. #34
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    True, but it would remain a discriminator if a Noveske tube were your first choice, which is what I had gleaned from earlier posts. That certainly isn't a criticism of the LMT, but I'm not sure that anyone beats Noveske in the production barrel business.

    AC

  5. #35
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    So stick when you gonna start putting this bad boy together? And what do you have planned for it once it has been?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigcoastie View Post
    So stick when you gonna start putting this bad boy together? And what do you have planned for it once it has been?

    Right now I am leaning heavily towards a VIS upper. I like the idea of a one piece upper for a piece of equipment that is going to be put into abusive states.

    I'm back and forth on using a billet lower. One side of me says it would be fun, especially after listening to people cry about the Sun Devil being "only T-6", and that it can't hold up. Another side of me says to just use a standard forged lower, the more generic the better. I can't help but think that the standard lowers have seen loads of abuse in the military, which makes me lean towards to the billet lower a little more. Thoughts?

    For stocks, I really think we need to go with a standard carbine receiver extension. That way guys can try out different stocks if they want. My initial idea was to use a UBR, I'm not sold either way right now. Thoughts?

    The trigger is going to be Geiselle, I don't see the point in working with a generic single stage as we are all pretty familiar with them. The Geiselle is supposed to be the most durable, so why not use that and see how it goes. If someone has another reason to drop in something else, I'm happy to listen. I've killed RRA 2 stage triggers, and won't be swayed in that direction...

    Magazines will be a mix of everything, including the EMAGs, new TD mags, USGI, PMAGs (30 and 20s), and HK.

    Still unsure on the sights.

    The pistol grip will be a Magpul MIAD, there really isn't any good reason I can come up with not to. Smaller shooters can swap out the rear section as we will leave it unpinned. A couple people have said that the MOE pistol grip would be a better way to go on a weapon that is expected to get impacted on a regular basis. The idea being that a one piece unit should hold up better than a 3 piece assembly. They might be right.

    Slings? I've got piles of slings, so I'm apt to throw several in the carbine case and have guys just use whatever they like best. Slings are easy swap around. Into the mix will go the Gear Sector GS-2P, new Magpul, new ARMS, BFG VCAS, and that should round out the bases pretty well.

    For BCG, I'm still wanting to use the LMT enhanced unit. They took a lot of flak early on, and I want to see how it holds up. Lots of good BCG out there, we may as well try something a little extravagant.

    Still up in the air on the barrel. I may end up just going with a 16" SS barrel. I am short on ideas, and not sure of other options at this point that I have quick access to.


    ... and of course, a can of Krylon.

  7. #37
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    I think a torture test on a billet receiver would be the way to go. We already know what the forged receivers can do. It would shed some light on the billet vs. forged arguments out there. Stick - on a side note, my Sun Devil wouldn't drop Pmags. Nothing some sandpaper can't fix though. As for the UBR, definitely. I want to see what its made of and if it lives up to expectations.
    -Mitch-

  8. #38
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    UD,

    You want to see the UBR beaten on? I think we can do that. Its not like the UBR isn't adjustable for wearing with armor or clothing. I also haven't seen anyone really do much of anything with the UBR yet. I think most people are afraid to damage a stock which costs that much, which is a shame as I think it will hold up to a world of harsh treatment.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stickman View Post
    UD,

    You want to see the UBR beaten on? I think we can do that. Its not like the UBR isn't adjustable for wearing with armor or clothing. I also haven't seen anyone really do much of anything with the UBR yet. I think most people are afraid to damage a stock which costs that much, which is a shame as I think it will hold up to a world of harsh treatment.
    Exactly...and you're just the man to deliver such a beating
    -Mitch-

  10. #40
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    First post here, originally emailed this to Rainier and John encouraged me to register.

    I'm mainly a knuckle dragging ak shooter, so here are my "make it more like an AK" recommendations. Feel free to make fun of me, I probably deserve it.

    Handguard: polymer, military style
    Reason: Polymer handguards work and are very durable, good quality ones absorb heat better than an aluminum handguard that mainly holds polymer rail covers. Compared with the AK, AR15's come with a semi-pleasant, semi-integrated vertical grip (mag well). Failing that caveman requirement... a quality drop in replacement rail system would work too.

    Sights: fixed front, larue rear
    Reason: Larue is simple/easy to install and reinstall, no locktite required. A fixed front is a fixed front.

    Optic: older style aimpoint or aimpoint m4
    Reason: Stupid-simple optics and durable. Trijicon RMR might be good too, but I haven't seen it in person yet.

    Grip: magpule moe & magpul trigger guard
    Reason: Better grip than a stock a1 or a2, and very durable/cheap. Magpul's trigger guard is extremely comfortable.

    Stock: sully stock (or UBR)
    Reason: I know the sully isn't variable, but it doesn't need to be, it's a nice, durable, short stock that is the same length as most people seemingly permanently keep their collapsible stocks at. If nothing else, people bear down on a rifle with a short stock and it increases accuracy, older US military tests with the M16A2 and M4 confirmed this.

    Barrel including length: 16 inch midlength
    Reason: Anyone can remove/attach the flash hider without getting .gov paperwork, Midlength improves your grip on a carbine if you want a longer, more stable grip. Midlength gastubes are highly available.

    Buffer: as needed

    Upper Rec: something with a left side charging handle
    Reason: The AK is reliable for a lot of reasons, one of them being it's no big deal if you have to manipulate the bolt manually and easily, either by hand, or by boot. IE, springfield stomp.

    Lower Receiver, BCG, LPK/trigger: milspec A2
    Reason: Cheap and it works.

    Magazine: pmag or emag
    Reason: Magpul makes the best ar15 mags since... uh, ever.

    Lights/lasers/etc: G2 on midwest (or similar) FSB mount
    Reason: Cheap, durable, minimal shadow cast

    Charging Handle: left side
    Reason: MUCH easier to manipulate, failing that either a pri charging handle or a standard handle with a pri latch. If possible, I'll never own an AR15 without some kind of pri "military latch" on it at minimum.

    Flash Hider/Comp: A2/vortex/blackout
    Reason: Have it your way.

    Misc Stuff rail covers etc: colt FSB side sling mount and some kind of plate style rear sling mount, IE DD, midwest, troy etc. QD is nice too. Maybe consider a dissipater style upper.
    Reason: The colt sling mount is again a cheap, durable unit that serves its purpose. A plate style attachment (or UBR QD point) improves ergonomics with the sling. If you don't care about a bayonet lug, the dissipater style allows for a much better forward grip. Plus the KAC military rails would drop right in. I usually care about keeping the bayonet lug and traditional FSB arrangement intact. If for no other reason than 99% of other AR's on the planet use the same arrangement, a lot of accessories are made to fit the FSB.

    There's something to be said for highly custom, fine tuned instruments. ...and there's something to be said for a rugged, inexpensive, durable instrument that does what it is called on to do.

    Here would be something to do. Why not build two "for abuse" AR's? Make one out of the nicest, most expensive, latest & greatest durable components. Make the other as low budget and knuckle dragging as possible.

    Regrettably AR15's really aren't set up for left side charging. I think the ability to directly act on the bolt adds a good comfort factor to a weapons operation.

  11. #41
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    Any chance you can put a redi-mag on this I want to see if it handles abuse well?

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by armakraut View Post
    Why not build two "for abuse" AR's? Make one out of the nicest, most expensive, latest & greatest durable components. Make the other as low budget and knuckle dragging as possible.
    I like the way you think, but finances prevent me from doing this. I had thought about buying an off the shelf Oly Arms, RRA, DPMS, or other basic AR15 to run and duplicate the testing process. I even kicked around the idea of taking one of my current basic carbines and using it, but decided that while I was willing to possibly destroy one weapon or its parts, I wasn't willing to do two.

    Besides, I want to build one which isn't going to be destroyed in testing, and I think the standard configurations would fare poorly in drop testing when the stocks/ tubes and handguards were hit.

  13. #43
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    So, what's the flash-to-bang on this, Stick? Is this something that you're looking to assemble as soon as the parts can be sourced, or are we still largely holding at the "deliberate thought" phase here?

    Honestly, the more I think about this, the more I get the sense that we're talking about building a not-too-distant cousin of Noveske's Afghan VIS in some ways. The Afghan doesn't necessarily meet the "build" standard, nor is it a particularly inexpensive end to our means, but that is the direction I'm headed.

    When my own mix and match project is complete, the plan is to have an Afghan VIS Switchblock upper riding atop an ACS-equipped MPL A lower.

    AC

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uglyduck View Post
    Exactly...and you're just the man to deliver such a beating
    We were running malfunction clearance Drills at a carbine class, well the case had to be yanked out using the butt stock to ground method. The owner of said stock forgot to collapse his UBR and the bottom corner broke off. Everybody's jaws dropped, except the owners cause he didn't see it. He cleared the malfunction and finished out the course of fire. Turns out that the piece just snapped back into place.. The rubber butt pad was a little cut up from the rocks he slammed it against a couple times.

    I know personally that the CTR can handle a lot. I wanna see what some CAA and El Cheapo Stocks can handle..

    Your pretty much right about nobody wanting to "break" their expensive stocks though..

    CXS

    Oh yea, Id like to see some TROY Diamondhead Rear Sights used and Abused. Folding or Solid.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Army Chief View Post
    So, what's the flash-to-bang on this, Stick? Is this something that you're looking to assemble as soon as the parts can be sourced, or are we still largely holding at the "deliberate thought" phase here?

    Honestly, the more I think about this, the more I get the sense that we're talking about building a not-too-distant cousin of Noveske's Afghan VIS in some ways. The Afghan doesn't necessarily meet the "build" standard, nor is it a particularly inexpensive end to our means, but that is the direction I'm headed.

    When my own mix and match project is complete, the plan is to have an Afghan VIS Switchblock upper riding atop an ACS-equipped MPL A lower.

    AC


    Right now I'm waiting for the VIS to arrive....

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