14.5 complete rifle... bcm/DD/spikes?

[Joelski]

May I ask, if you've already completed several of your own builds, why buy OEM?

[BoilerUp]

EDIT: looks like the 14.5 barrels are not SS, only the 16 and 18 inch "precision" models. Still fits what I need though.

I must have been switching views around as I thought I saw a Recce 14 w/ SS barrel, but now I see that isn't the case. Which makes sense since they don't sell a 14.5 SS barrel.

This looks like a fantastic rifle: http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-R...le-752-790.htm

I think I'll clone the 18" for my SPR build.

[nijikon84]

I'm going to have to agree with lots of others.

I have a BCM 14.5 ( bought a complete lower + BCM BFH ELW 14.5 upper ). It's a wonderful shooter and upgraded with a Wilson Combat TTU trigger.

BCM Blem or Non-Blem Complete lower is the ticket + your choice of BCM 14.5 upper if you want a BCM.

However, if you're looking at spending a decent chunk, I'd give a hard look at a KAC SR-15. It has the softest shooting gas system + probably the best flip up micro sights.

For me, if money wasn't a consideration here would be the 3 5.56 guns I'd be looking at:

1. KAC SR-15 Mod2 ( I have a complete KAC Mod 2 14.5 gun, just a disclaimer )

2. LaRue PredatOBR 5.56

3. BCM / DD Defense gun

If money were an issue, I'd look at the following:

1. BCM / DD

2. Sionics

3. PWS

[hkdcamcain]

Personally I don't care for KAC, at the price point I feel there are better options. As for the Larue... Drool but I'd never shoot it, I'd only stare lovingly at it.

I've built several ARs but its always a degree of trial and error and I want a reliable name brand weapon system I can depend on. Here are a few of my builds.
First ever ar15: PSA middy kit


Second AR15: CQ build (also mostly PSA) bipod was for zeroing only


Third: KISS / Service Style build


Some more recent ones, a twin to my kiss I built for a friend on the left, and my SPR on the right. The SPR was the most expensive build I've done and is damn accurate.

[nijikon84]

I wasn't a big KAC fan, but after owning Noveske, LaRue, BCM, and DD guns, KAC is probably at the top for me.

Fit and Finish: Not gonna lie here, it's nothing special. Standard Milspec stuff. Upper / Lower fit is just ok and the anodizing seems to chip / flake about the same as other mid-tier guns.

Accuracy: It's good to great. SR15s with a chrome lined chrome moly barrel is about a 1moa or better shooter with match ammo.

Reliability / Durability: This gun just runs and runs and runs. Ballistic Radio had a 20k torture tested/abused SR15 Mod2. End of the test? Still 1MOA edge to edge shooter.

Innovation: Intermediate Gas System, pretty much only one for a 14.5 barrel ( Standard Mid is 9.8 inches, KAC Intermediate is 11.1 inches ). It makes for a much smoother recoil impulse. I haven't had much issue with brass cased FMJ. I think they opened the gas ports with the Mod1 so people are running steel cased stuff without issues. Beyond that, the Mod2 also has a non-tapered gas tube and castle nut secured gas block, no other ARs are running anything similar.

Add that with the fact you get full ambi controls, 2 stage match trigger, LMT Sopmod, and KAC Micro BUIS. This to me is a better deal than the Spike's rifle or BCM Jack Carbine you linked.

[hkdcamcain]

The KAC rifles don't have adjustable gas systems do they? The barret rifles also use a castle nut and proprietary piston system on them. I thought it was an interesting system I'd never seen before. Interesting KAC has it too. The issue I'm seeing with KAC is most of the system is proprietary. Plus swinging the extra 400-500$ for something I can only use KAC parts with, which is same as the Larue proprietary system.

Seeing as KAC is a contract company how is their CS to the little people?
(still eying the BCM middy too)

[nijikon84]

The KAC rifles don't have adjustable gas systems do they? The barret rifles also use a castle nut and proprietary piston system on them. I thought it was an interesting system I'd never seen before. Interesting KAC has it too. The issue I'm seeing with KAC is most of the system is proprietary. Plus swinging the extra 400-500$ for something I can only use KAC parts with, which is same as the Larue proprietary system.

Seeing as KAC is a contract company how is their CS to the little people?
(still eying the BCM middy too)

Yeah, I understand the dislike towards proprietary systems. I also was against getting a system that did not have interchangeable parts at first.

My thought on that subject is that KAC rifles are tested to 20-25k+ rounds without much issue to the barrel or bolt. If you go through that many rounds, the ammo alone is worth a few rifles.

Their CS is excellent, I know on arfcom on the KAC sub forum there was a post about offering a re-barrel if someone actually shot out their barrel past 20k rounds? Don't quote me though!

You can't go wrong with BCM though. This is a setup similar to mine:

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-B...w-kmr-a-13.htm
http://www.rainierarms.com/bcm-cosmo...-0-stock-black

[Deadwing]

Echoing what others have already said, buy a complete BCM lower and finish it off with the BCM upper of your choice. That'll save you some coin in sales tax as well since you can buy the upper online. BCM builds a solid product that'll take use and abuse and keep on running.

Nothing wrong with Spike's, as i was able to build a Spike's rifle from parts (Spike's FN made CHF barrel w/ pinned GB, forged receivers, phosphate BCG, and LPK) to be used as a loaner/beater gun for about $750. No way i'd spend almost $2k on a complete Spike's rifle when you could have the KAC for a few hundred more, or a BCM for a few hundred less.

As for KAC's customer service, i've never bought a rifle from them. But, i have purchased several rail systems direct from them. Aside from a long wait on hold, which is common just about everywhere these days, I found their CS to be efficient, friendly, and professional.

[UWone77]

I own 2 KAC SR15 Mod 0's. I'd take those over any other 2k rifle on the market today.... and since it's Sunday, twice today.

Seriously, if you look around, there is no better deal for a rifle as you can find SR15's for 2k or less. On a Mod 0 you get:

KAC 2 Stage Match Trigger
LMT SOPMOD Stock
Full Ambi Controls
URX Handguards w/rail panels/VFG
E3 Bolt (KAC has never had one break commercially last I checked)
KAC Sights

Once you break it down, it's actually a pretty damn good value. If I was looking for a SR15 right now, I'd go for a Mod 1, as I like the URX 3.1 over the URX2

[Deadwing]

.... and since it's Sunday, twice today.

LOL

[nijikon84]

I own 2 KAC SR15 Mod 0's. I'd take those over any other 2k rifle on the market today.... and since it's Sunday, twice today.

Seriously, if you look around, there is no better deal for a rifle as you can find SR15's for 2k or less. On a Mod 0 you get:

KAC 2 Stage Match Trigger
LMT SOPMOD Stock
Full Ambi Controls
URX Handguards w/rail panels/VFG
E3 Bolt (KAC has never had one break commercially last I checked)
KAC Sights

Once you break it down, it's actually a pretty damn good value. If I was looking for a SR15 right now, I'd go for a Mod 1, as I like the URX 3.1 over the URX2

Pretty much this.

I didn't want to come off as a KAC fanboi. I do own the other premium/boutique brands, but the combination of innovation, quality, reliability, and durability of a KAC is REALLY hard to beat for the price.

I'd personally recommend a Mod 2 because of the improved gas system, but the Mod 1 is definitely awesome.

My old go to Rifle was the BCM 14.5. The KAC Mod 2 is my definite go to rifle now, hands down. With match ammo, I've hit 10-12 inch plates off bipod @ 600 yards with 90% accuracy. I have a MAMS on it and with the intermediate gas system, rapid strings of fire is effortless. The intermediate gas system feels different, period. I've had multiple people at the range try my gun, they all agree that it is much smoother and softer recoil.

[hkdcamcain]

Damnit.
For the record some of you should be in sales...
The more reviews and videos I watch the more I'm looking at the KAC.

BTW that 20k+ made cringe as it progressed.
But I'm not surprised, I have a 1911 with 4k rounds zero failures and I hear that's impossible too... How effective are the BUIS considering they are ranged sights but mounted on all different lengths.... ?

And how complex is the stripping of KAC rifle? Special tools?

[nijikon84]

Damnit.
For the record some of you should be in sales...
The more reviews and videos I watch the more I'm looking at the KAC.

BTW that 20k+ made cringe as it progressed.
But I'm not surprised, I have a 1911 with 4k rounds zero failures and I hear that's impossible too... How effective are the BUIS considering they are ranged sights but mounted on all different lengths.... ?

And how complex is the stripping of KAC rifle? Special tools?

Few points.

I have a Wilson Combat CQB Elite and SA TRP. Both have been absolutely flawless! I love 1911s big time also.

The BUIS is the best on the market to me. I've used Troys, Diamond Heads, and Magpul Pros ( I own the Troys and Pros ). If I had a chance, I'd switch over every gun to the KAC Micro BUIS. My buddy bought a set. He was nailing steel plates on a bench without rest, bipod, or bag at 300-400 yards with bulk 55gr FMJ. They're that awesome to use.

As far as stripping down the KAC rifle, do you use mean like a strip and clean? If so, it's the same as another AR15. The KAC Upper will fit and work with any AR15 lower, same with the upper ( take into consideration the appropriate carbine buffer + spring ). Stripping down the BCG and cleaning is also the same. I do believe that you can use a regular BCG with the E3 extension in a pinch ( I believe this is correct, it might be the other way around ) but it's not recommended for extended use.

I'd think about it this way:

LMT Sopmod stock's are pretty much my favorite. No wobble, super tight lockup, storage ( I don't care for this), and my favorite cheek weld out of all collapsible AR15 stocks.
Knight's 2 Stage Match Trigger is heavy enough to be a good duty/patrol rifle, but since it's split into 2 stages, you can still do precision shooting by prepping to the wall. The only competitor would be any gun that comes with a Geissele or LaRue trigger. Milspec triggers, even quality ones like the ALG QMS/ACT can't compare.
Ambi Controls. People spend a good chunk of money on BAD levers, and Battle Arms ambi safeties. You get all that AND an ambi mag release that's built into the lower ( also comes with a nice integrated QD socket plate )
Best BUIS in the market like previously talked about
Accurate and durable Bolt and Chrome Lined barrel
Softest shooting but highly reliable gas system

If you look around for a good deal or used deal, a full rifle can be had for $1600-1800 range.

[hkdcamcain]

Few points.

I have a Wilson Combat CQB Elite and SA TRP. Both have been absolutely flawless! I love 1911s big time also.

The BUIS is the best on the market to me. I've used Troys, Diamond Heads, and Magpul Pros ( I own the Troys and Pros ). If I had a chance, I'd switch over every gun to the KAC Micro BUIS. My buddy bought a set. He was nailing steel plates on a bench without rest, bipod, or bag at 300-400 yards with bulk 55gr FMJ. They're that awesome to use.

As far as stripping down the KAC rifle, do you use mean like a strip and clean? If so, it's the same as another AR15. The KAC Upper will fit and work with any AR15 lower, same with the upper ( take into consideration the appropriate carbine buffer + spring ). Stripping down the BCG and cleaning is also the same. I do believe that you can use a regular BCG with the E3 extension in a pinch ( I believe this is correct, it might be the other way around ) but it's not recommended for extended use.

I'd think about it this way:

LMT Sopmod stock's are pretty much my favorite. No wobble, super tight lockup, storage ( I don't care for this), and my favorite cheek weld out of all collapsible AR15 stocks.
Knight's 2 Stage Match Trigger is heavy enough to be a good duty/patrol rifle, but since it's split into 2 stages, you can still do precision shooting by prepping to the wall. The only competitor would be any gun that comes with a Geissele or LaRue trigger. Milspec triggers, even quality ones like the ALG QMS/ACT can't compare.
Ambi Controls. People spend a good chunk of money on BAD levers, and Battle Arms ambi safeties. You get all that AND an ambi mag release that's built into the lower ( also comes with a nice integrated QD socket plate )
Best BUIS in the market like previously talked about
Accurate and durable Bolt and Chrome Lined barrel
Softest shooting but highly reliable gas system

If you look around for a good deal or used deal, a full rifle can be had for $1600-1800 range.

I have a SA TRP (nonrailed armory kote) and an old MC Operator, they have both been spectacular. The MC mags had some issues. Can't say I've had the pleasure of owning a Wilson Combat however.

As for the KAC questions, I was curious about the full disassemble, gas system etc for cleaning. Since it uses some non standard design I was wondering if usual methods like the pipe cleaners would work. I think it's mostly paranoia that I'd buy a nonstandard system and have issues out the box.

Hopefully I can get a decent penny from selling off a few of my toys I don't want anymore.

[mustangfreek]

Never had a 14.5" but it's on the list..

Anyways, I think BCM is the way to go unless some rant deal pops up for Black Friday