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  1. #46
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    Bullet stability? 1:7 twist barrel and you're done. Nothing to worry about.

    Powder burn rates will not make much of a difference in velocity. Very minor differences. And truthfully, you shouldn't be relying on reloads for self defense. Buy 75gr TAP or a good mk262 77gr clone like CBC or IMI razor core.
    Will - Owner of Arisaka LLC - http://www.arisakadefense.com

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slippers View Post
    Bullet stability? 1:7 twist barrel and you're done. Nothing to worry about.

    Powder burn rates will not make much of a difference in velocity. Very minor differences. And truthfully, you shouldn't be relying on reloads for self defense. Buy 75gr TAP or a good mk262 77gr clone like CBC or IMI razor core.
    For plinking is what I am talking about... to make a generic load that will be stable for cheap. I am leaning towards the Hornaday bullets because they are like 15 cents a piece. Shoot more for less. I have some coming so I will try out 100 of them and see... same with the 77gr...

    For SD I really like that 70gr barnes TSX that you mentioned earlier. I might buy a box or two of those for those just in case moments. Or the 77 gr black hills or whatever... I am sure all will get the job done. I just dislike having to rezero my rifle all the time.

    So basically if I reload with the 75 grain hornadays and then buy some TAP for the real just in case.... that is a real possibility. Same grain, and hopefully same zero....

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slippers View Post
    Bullet stability? 1:7 twist barrel and you're done. Nothing to worry about.

    Powder burn rates will not make much of a difference in velocity. Very minor differences. And truthfully, you shouldn't be relying on reloads for self defense. Buy 75gr TAP or a good mk262 77gr clone like CBC or IMI razor core.
    BTW my barrel is a 10.5 ballistic advantage with a 1:7 twist...

    http://androcorpind.com/index.php?ro...&product_id=51

  4. #49
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    I find if velocity is similar, the POI is usually really close at 100 yards.
    Will - Owner of Arisaka LLC - http://www.arisakadefense.com

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slippers View Post
    I find if velocity is similar, the POI is usually really close at 100 yards.
    I am coming from a baseline of my 16" gun... consider I have many seemingly stupid questions because I have never fired an SBR. Not even once. I will have one because it's America.

    With my 16" gun if I swap grain weights I am all over the place. I can still hit the target but the POI is totally different. When I shoot my go to load (69gr smk) I can get well under sub moa... my best group was a 10 shot group that could be covered by a dime at 100 yards... I also was able to hit out to 800 yards with it. I'm frickin' phobic about it. It took me a while to get my rifle zeroed but now it goes where I want it to go.

    I am having to completely throw out (for the most part) my thinking of that because I am going with a totally different style of gun.

    Like I said, at present having reloads for the 75 grain hornadays if they work decent then I will buy a lot of them and shoot for cheaper.

    I do keep on hearing about bullet stability out of short barrels. I see youtube videos with keyholes all over the place even with factory ammo...it's something I definitely want to address upfront. Until I am absolutely certain then I won't use my suppressor.

    For this gun though I will probably zero somewhere between 25 and 50 yards...I arbitrarily set the 100 yard mark as my baseline but that was just picked out of the blue.

  6. #51
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    http://www.selwayarmory.com/hornady-...g-of-2000.html

    .14 cents a projectile ain't too bad. I will be maybe .20 cents or under per round which is a good thing... for a nice consistent round... That ultimately is what I am after.

    And I want to make sure it's stable enough to use my suppressor, which now that I have beaten it like a dead horse, I am sure the 75 gr will be fine.

    With this load having pinpoint precision is not primary. With my other gun, yes it is primary. With this gun I want it to be dead on accurate which would just be a bonus.

    Doing all this out of an SBR seems like a different game than a regular length rifle though...

  7. #52
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    At the end of the day I just have to see which bullets the GUN likes...

    When I was doing the load for my 16" gun when I hit 69gr SMK.... it was like magic.

    I am just hoping that the gun likes cheap projectiles :)

  8. #53
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    I've started and stopped this post a half dozen times and I just can't stop myself this time - even though Will beat me to some of the punch.

    Here is my viewpoint:

    You haven't even built up this carbine yet. I believe you're grossly over-theorizing, particularly when unable to generate data.

    I suggest you get your stamp, build the SBR, work out any kinks, attach the suppressor and tune if needed - all with a reputable factory ammo to establish a baseline. The likelihood of a good factory load close-range keyholing with your 1:7 barrel is very, very small. If anything, you'll overstabilize 55 gr, which won't matter at all for the ranges you should be considering with this rifle. But you can get real data when the gun is built. Then figure out how you're actually going to measure performance and start your test with a good M262 Mod 1 variant (Black Hills, CBC, IMI Razor Core), using those quantifiable endpoints. If it fails to perform as you would like, THEN consider alternatives to address shortcomings (likely with 77 SMK and 55 FMJ data already in hand).

    Also consider that your secondary (defensive) objective for an optimal load is playing to the greatest weakness of an SBR (velocity). Sounds like a recipe for failure that would make me grab the 16" over the 10.5" without some specific need that short satisfies better (which is probably only a handful of scenarios and perhaps not worth agonizing over). Maybe this SBR is just a fun range/pit toy, which is still an excellent reason to build it.
    Last edited by RiverRat; 23 December 2015 at 23:47.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiverRat View Post
    I've started and stopped this post a half dozen times and I just can't stop myself this time - even though Will beat me to some of the punch.

    Here is my viewpoint:

    You haven't even built up this carbine yet. I believe you're grossly over-theorizing, particularly when unable to generate data.

    I suggest you get your stamp, build the SBR, work out any kinks, attach the suppressor and tune if needed - all with a reputable factory ammo to establish a baseline. The likelihood of a good factory load close-range keyholing with your 1:7 barrel is very, very small. If anything, you'll overstabilize 55 gr, which won't matter at all for the ranges you should be considering with this rifle. But you can get real data when the gun is built. Then figure out how you're actually going to measure performance and start your test with a good M262 Mod 1 variant (Black Hills, CBC, IMI Razor Core), using those quantifiable endpoints. If it fails to perform as you would like, THEN consider alternatives to address shortcomings (likely with 77 SMK and 55 FMJ data already in hand).

    Also consider that your secondary (defensive) objective for an optimal load is playing to the greatest weakness of an SBR (velocity). Sounds like a recipe for failure that would make me grab the 16" over the 10.5" without some specific need that short satisfies better (which is probably only a handful of scenarios and perhaps not worth agonizing over). Maybe this SBR is just a fun range/pit toy, which is still an excellent reason to build it.
    But you're missing the point... "I over-think, therefore I am"...

    It wouldn't be my post if I didn't agonize over dumb bullshit

    That is my motto... just ask anyone LOL!!!

    But on a serious note though look a couple posts up in this thread for the video by Hornaday and watch that one. It points out the stability issue.

    I have also seen numerous videos and seen numerous posts about it and heard about it from numerous people who have even showed me pics of their bullets entering the target backwards or sideways. If the bullets keyhole or whatever.... I won't run my suppressor on it. Period. From all indications the 77 grain bullet is by far the most stable at those lower velocities, at least according to the online calculators and such.

    I am starting from there merely because I don't want to F up a 900 suppressor. All the rest of the operator stuff can be sorted out later. But like I was saying, once I start doing a reload, I will do THAT reload. It makes life a lot easier when I can get one set of components and just roll with it. It's just bonus points that 77gr bullets also apparently have the best terminal ballistics from an SBR.

    But you are right about me speculating. I do tend to do a lot of that. While I am agonizing over it I try to agonize over all of it just so that I can get it over with

  10. #55
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    My other motto is complaining about ATF wait times

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiverRat View Post
    You haven't even built up this carbine yet. I believe you're grossly over-theorizing, particularly when unable to generate data.

    I suggest you get your stamp, build the SBR, work out any kinks, attach the suppressor and tune if needed - all with a reputable factory ammo to establish a baseline. The likelihood of a good factory load close-range keyholing with your 1:7 barrel is very, very small. If anything, you'll overstabilize 55 gr, which won't matter at all for the ranges you should be considering with this rifle. But you can get real data when the gun is built. Then figure out how you're actually going to measure performance and start your test with a good M262 Mod 1 variant (Black Hills, CBC, IMI Razor Core), using those quantifiable endpoints. If it fails to perform as you would like, THEN consider alternatives to address shortcomings (likely with 77 SMK and 55 FMJ data already in hand).

    Also I should add if all goes well I will be shooting this gun on Saturday if all goes well (I hope). I will wrap the buffer tube with about 2 pounds of paracord and go pistol for a while until I can find an alternative.

    After looking into it some I think I am glad that I did, because knowing my dumbass on day 1 I would put my suppressor on there and get a baffle strike. This gun will be unsuppressed (for now) until I am comfortable with what I wind up with ammo wise. I will do a lot of testing and tinkering in the mean time.... but my Wal Mart ammo does not get the suppressor treatment until I am (personally) sure about all that jive. If anything I have a couple hundred rounds of cheap ammo to test gun function to start with then I can, as you suggest, move on from there.

  12. #57
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    I bet it drives you bonkers to know I shoot wolf steel case through my suppressor all the time. :)

    Seriously, your fears are unwarranted.

    Also, don't limit yourself to short ranges. I shoot out to 550 all the time with my 11.5. It's fun, and challenging. Short barrels tend to be at least as accurate as longer ones, you just lose velocity.
    Will - Owner of Arisaka LLC - http://www.arisakadefense.com

  13. #58
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    ^^ and I've been there and done it as well. With both his 11.5" and my 12.5". I may even try the new 8.2" wlv next time I get up there. Just because....

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by alamo5000 View Post
    wrap the buffer tube with about 2 pounds of paracord and go pistol for a while until I can find an alternative.
    A simple, short-term, zero impact, cost effective solution: http://www.thordsencustoms.com/

    You can set your system up with the buffer tube and action spring you plan to use long-term. When you get your stamp, detach the Thorsden and slide on the stock.....done. The least expensive tube cover is something like $22 on sale this week.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slippers View Post
    I bet it drives you bonkers to know I shoot wolf steel case through my suppressor all the time. :)

    Seriously, your fears are unwarranted.

    Also, don't limit yourself to short ranges. I shoot out to 550 all the time with my 11.5. It's fun, and challenging. Short barrels tend to be at least as accurate as longer ones, you just lose velocity.

    Bonkers? No way man. It makes me feel A LOT better to be truthful. I just dropped a lot of coin on a project that I'm not familiar with so in the end the shittier the ammo the better. Makes me feel a lot better. I will still do a load for my gun but I'm just making sure...

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