Thoughts and opinions on a general purpose upper.

[Aragorn]

Ooooooooook. So I need a new upper. My wife is claiming my 14.5" upper, which I'm totally cool with. It's a BCM ELW barrel wearing an EFAB and using an 11" Centurion rail, so it's small, lightweight, and fits her well.

She also wants a Seekins lower for it because it's "swoopy and pretty". Cool. Not a problem. I shall make this happen.

However, a side affect of this is that it leaves a gap in my lineup. I'll have a built up lower still, and it will need an upper. My only other upper uses a 17.3" barrel, rifle gas, adjustable gas block, and lightweight components (titanium BCG etc.) . It hasn't given me any reason not to trust it, and it is accurate, BUT, I just don't have the faith in it that I'd appreciate for anything other than a competition roll. Simply, it's just not what I want for something like ISIS showing up, or a home invasion, or Katrina 2.0

I need something to fill that roll.

Also, I've been in something of a transition with my shooting lately. It used to be all running a course of fire (usually 30 yards and in) with a shot timer in competition style shooting. Now, there is still a lot of that, but I've been moving a lot more towards deliberate marksmanship, usage of an actual shooting sling, position shooting with, and shooting at extended ranges (out to 500m).

I'd like the rifle to be capable of all this as well. I've never actually purchased an entire upper before, but I am considering it in this case. I don't really have anything in the way of criteria regarding weight or style of forend, other than I do want a 16" barrel and a 15" (or close) forend so I have room for hand stop and bipod mounting options. The 14.5" upper my wife is getting is super slim and light, and that's great. My 17.3" is also slim and light, which is great. That said, I don't have a problem with a more "normal" weighted rifle, and since I prefer flash suppressors, they do seem more mild in recoil.

One upper in particular I'm looking at is the PWS MK116. This one:
http://primaryweapons.com/store/product/mk116-upper/

I'd never thought I'd consider a piston gun, but there you go. It's kinda in the middle as far as weight, reviews seem very positive, accuracy reviews seem very positive, it's BCG is nickel Teflon which is nice (I've seen a noveske bolt rust in a single outing, granted it was raining...), the gas block is adjustable basically for cheap ammo, 5.56 ammo, and suppressed use (always a possibility in the future), which to me means it ought to run reliably and softly.

Whatever I go with, it'll almost certainly be using my Vortex 2.5-10x scope.

I'm looking for thoughts and opinions. What are yours?

[BoilerUp]

I'd consider a BCM w/ SS barrel if you really want the accuracy for 500 yd shooting: http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-S...0-kmr-a-15.htm

[voodoo_man]

PWS makes top tier guns. I've run a bunch of different PWS uppers and currently own a MK107 SBR and I have to say I'm super impressed with it. It is definitely a "do all" upper in terms of accuracy, function and longevity. It is fairly expensive though and messing with the configuration is pretty much off limits. I'd suggest checking out the BCM complete uppers with a good barrel to get that best bang for buck upper you'll be happy with.

Or buy an SR15 and call it a day...

[Aragorn]

I'd consider a BCM w/ SS barrel if you really want the accuracy for 500 yd shooting: http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-S...0-kmr-a-15.htm

Not a horrible recommendation, I have a KMR and really like it. As for the barrel, my buddy has the 20" version and we've burned through about 1/3 of the barrel life already. I suppose I could send it to WMD for melonite, but I could probably also find another barrel as good or better with that for as much or less.

[schambers]

A rifle that uses a 2-10x power optic is not one that I would lump into the GP category, but that's just me. I consider a general purpose rifle to be 5.56, 14.5-16" with a red dot or low magnification optic.

The first AR I ever bought was a PWS Gen 1 MK 114 and I was pretty happy with it for a while. As I started to get away from factory builds and into DIY stuff, I gravitated towards DI and eventually traded it for something else. DI offered more options for future possibilities and the despite all the marketing and internet forum hype sorrounding piston systems at the time, the piston systems never offered anything so great that I would be willing to buy into another piston setup.

That's a very roundabout way of saying: PWS makes very well made components/ systems and you will be very happy with the upper. Just keep in mind that it will likely stay very close to or identical to whatever configuration you purchase it in (to be fair almost all piston manufacturers a subject to this fact).

[Aragorn]

PWS makes top tier guns. I've run a bunch of different PWS uppers and currently own a MK107 SBR and I have to say I'm super impressed with it. It is definitely a "do all" upper in terms of accuracy, function and longevity. It is fairly expensive though and messing with the configuration is pretty much off limits. I'd suggest checking out the BCM complete uppers with a good barrel to get that best bang for buck upper you'll be happy with.

Or buy an SR15 and call it a day...

That's all good news, I don't think I've ever screwed with a rifles configuration after it's been assembled, aside from accessories. An SR-15 would win all, but even with tax return season, not sure I can drop 1,700$ on an upper. Not that I've ENTIRELY ruled it out lol.

[Aragorn]

A rifle that uses a 2-10x power optic is not one that I would lump into the GP category, but that's just me. I consider a general purpose rifle to be 5.56, 14.5-16" with a red dot or low magnification optic.

The first AR I ever bought was a PWS Gen 1 MK 114 and I was pretty happy with it for a while. As I started to get away from factory builds and into DIY stuff, I gravitated towards DI and eventually traded it for something else. DI offered more options for future possibilities and the despite all the marketing and internet forum hype sorrounding piston systems at the time, the piston systems never offered anything so great that I would be willing to buy into another piston setup.

That's a very roundabout way of saying: PWS makes very well made components/ systems and you will be very happy with the upper. Just keep in mind that it will likely stay very close to or identical to whatever configuration you purchase it in (to be fair almost all piston manufacturers a subject to this fact).

Ever tried to hit an 8"-10" plate past 100 yards with a red dot quickly and consistently? Not easy.

And yeah, I was really surprised with myself for even considering a piston for, well, all the reasons you just said. But again, never found myself reconfiguring after initial assembly.

[John Moses]

The BCM SS would be hard to beat with the KMR. If you can do an SBR, I would suggest a 12.5" Noveske with a 11" NSR Gives you great accuracy, lighter wight, compact, and still ends up at about pretty manageable with a can on it.

[Stone]

"I've seen a noveske bolt rust in a single outing, granted it was raining" Don't run the Noveske in harsh conditions, check...

[Former11B]

Ever tried to hit an 8"-10" plate past 100 yards with a red dot quickly and consistently? Not easy.

And yeah, I was really surprised with myself for even considering a piston for, well, all the reasons you just said. But again, never found myself reconfiguring after initial assembly.

I'd build a "Recce" type upper: 16 inch "match" barrel (Rainier Stainless barrels are extremely durable, with 12-15,000+ Rounds being the norm). They run about $290, or $360 for the Ultra Match (Shilen blank). Combine the "match" barrel with a free floating rail of your choice and a quality upper, and add a lower power magnified optic (ACOG, 1-4x, 1-6x, etc) and you're in business. Quality and simplicity

[alamo5000]

Whatever I go with, it'll almost certainly be using my Vortex 2.5-10x scope.

If that is the case to me you already answered your own question. If you know that's the optic you will use then build to the strength and purpose of that optic.

Former11B is definitely onto something if you ask me.

I'd build a "Recce" type upper: 16 inch "match" barrel (Rainier Stainless barrels are extremely durable, with 12-15,000+ Rounds being the norm). They run about $290, or $360 for the Ultra Match (Shilen blank). Combine the "match" barrel with a free floating rail of your choice and a quality upper, and add a lower power magnified optic (ACOG, 1-4x, 1-6x, etc) and you're in business. Quality and simplicity

schambers is also onto something as well.

A rifle that uses a 2-10x power optic is not one that I would lump into the GP category,

Now ask yourself what is that particular style of optic good at? On an AR it will either be paper punching for groups (IE accuracy set up) or long range shooting.

I regularly take my 16" rifle out to 600 yards and beyond with a 4x scope. Generally I will knock a few out to 800 just because I like it. A 2.5-10x scope in my opinion would make some difference on long range shooting but it would REALLY make a difference in paper punching for groups at 100 yards. Again, that is not general purpose stuff.

Of course whatever you do 'will work' but having a purpose driven set up is something else. If you want a general purpose gun for a Katrina 2.0 or a zombie attack, get a ballistic advantage barrel, a good red dot and a magnifier. Either that or go with a 1-4x... the possibilities really are endless. I have found rather recently after playing with a new red dot for a couple weeks that a good 1x dot is way more useful in a zombie situation.

I think you need to sharpen the knives a little more... IE define what you really want out of the gun and what it's purpose will be.

[Aragorn]

An SBR would be sweet, but isn't exactly what I'm looking for here, partially because of what I want for range requirements and partially because I'll be moving a few times in the next couple years, to include out of state. Too much of a hassle.

I guess I have to respectfully disagree with some people about low power scopes not being general purpose. 10x is realistically probably overpowered for a 5.56, but 2.5x (where the scope normally is set) works beautifully. Hell, that's below the magnification of the most popular ACOG's, which are usually considered general purpose. I ran an Aimpoint Comp M4 with a 2 MOA dot for years before getting my Vortex. It was great, until I wanted to hit a smaller target such as an 8" or 10" plate quickly/repeatedly at or beyond a hundred yards. I've tried magnifiers, small FOV and eye box, especially while trying to hit a moving target, hardly useful.

2.5-5x with a large FOV and eye box though? It's great and gives up VERY little at short distances. If the target is RIGHT THERE, I just roll into my irons. Which I realize I forgot to mention while bringing up the optic. I use a set of Griffin Armament offset irons with that scope.

To me a red dot is just too limiting. Fantastic up close, UNBEATABLE up close, but seriously lacking when it comes to distance. 2.5x gives up some up close but it is NOT much (especially paired with the offset irons), whereas a red dot gives up a TON to a low mag scope at any sort of appreciable range. Even iron sights such as the KAC Micros have them beat with the ability to at least dial in range.

Plus you can range with a mil dot scope.

Plus with zero stops you can quickly dial to a new zero with a different load. I.e. switching between XM193 for close range blasting/practice/whatever to Mk262 for reaching further out. (Mostly be being able to immediately dial back to original zero/load combo by running the dial back to the stop)

A low power variable optic is as general purpose as it gets with an AR.

I thought I DID define what I wanted and what it's purpose would be. To state it even more clearly, if I want to shoot something and it's within the effective range off a 5.56, I want to be able to hit it. Quickly.

Really though, this all strays from the original topic of "What Upper" to build or consider. I like my sighting system and don't feel the need to change it, or budget for a new one. I'd rather put those resources into the upper and ammo.

As for the upper though, everyone is pretty much saying the same thing (which is nice) which is basically get a quality SS barrel, free float it, and call it good. Or get the PWS and be happy.

Oh, right. I should also mention I used to have a Nightforce NSX 1-4x24 with an FC2 reticle. I didn't like it. The reticle was neat, but on 1x it was like a weird, limited eyebox, fishbowl edged red dot. Also couldn't range with it like with a mil-dot system. Felt damn near as bomb proof as my Aimpoint though.



INNYHOO, anyone have any experience with AR15performence.com ? They have a lathe squared upper I'm thinking of getting if I decide to build.

[Aragorn]

"I've seen a noveske bolt rust in a single outing, granted it was raining" Don't run the Noveske in harsh conditions, check...

Had to mortar the gun to break the bolt loose. Still functioned after that, and still functions now. It has since become an ongoing experiment to see if/when it fails. Seems like most of the rust was in the cam pin hole. Slip 2000 apparently isn't the best for rust prevention.

[voodoo_man]

You can always use one lower that you really like (like an SBR lower) and setup a bunch of various uppers.

I would stay with known AR15 barrel manufacturers that are vetted, BCM, Rainier Arms, PWS, KAC, and the like.

[John Moses]

Had to mortar the gun to break the bolt loose. Still functioned after that, and still functions now. It has since become an ongoing experiment to see if/when it fails. Seems like most of the rust was in the cam pin hole. Slip 2000 apparently isn't the best for rust prevention.

Noveske does not manufacture bolts. They use a RCA Melonited, and in years past were using CMT bolts, and most likely still do on their phosphate. Sounds like the bolt wasn't properly lubricated after dis-assembly and cleaning. I know Slip2000 uses a water based cleaner. (if thats what you used) I only say this because the situation that occurred could happen to any rifle, and nothing "Noveske" caused it, and wouldn't be a fair representation of their product.