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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by SINNER View Post
    I'm just planning on being a warlord when the shit goes down.
    I'm with you there. The good news is that the bottom feeders will just eat each other, leaving precious few needing attention after the fact. If you survive the first week, you're a king.

    That's why I'm voting Sanders. Push the bus off the cliff and see who survives. I can guarantee you one thing, none of them will have barfcom logins.
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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by alamo5000 View Post
    Let me correct you on a couple of things... I didn't start out asking 'which plate carrier' in the context that you're trying to put it. I asked (at least I tried to ask) what is a good basic set up for me to carry extra mags so that my fun shooting can be more fun. So that after I empty a magazine I don't have to walk back to the truck to get another one.
    Oh, sorry. Got it. Here's all you need. pick the size that works best for you.


    I got confused when you started talking about getting in gunfights in traffic.
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  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post

    I got confused when you started talking about getting in gunfights in traffic.
    LOL.

    alamo, honestly, my first rifle class, I stuffed magazines in my cargo pockets. It worked fine for what it is. I have a couple of plate carriers in the patrol car, but I never have time to deploy them. Over the years, I've just learned to stuff some extra mags in the car door that I can grab a few before I deploy. At the range if you're just looking for something to hold extra mags, I just attach a couple of fastmags to my belt.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by UWone77 View Post
    LOL.

    alamo, honestly, my first rifle class, I stuffed magazines in my cargo pockets. It worked fine for what it is. I have a couple of plate carriers in the patrol car, but I never have time to deploy them. Over the years, I've just learned to stuff some extra mags in the car door that I can grab a few before I deploy. At the range if you're just looking for something to hold extra mags, I just attach a couple of fastmags to my belt.
    Fastmags are good to go. Little finicky on the initial belt attachment though.

    I personally like kydex ambi mag carriers with standard belt clips. Fast on fast off secure

  5. #50
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    Another angle to all this is this:



    All those pigs were shot by two guys with one pistol each. They were thick and we managed to get right up on em and get em cornered.

    I haven't been out for a while because the guy that owned that ranch sold it...but I can easily see this rig as being used for that too. If I am out riding on a 4 wheeler or in the bed of a truck or just hiking through the woods... I want to have extra ammo in some place besides my back pocket. If I can come up with a comfortable light weight rig that would be awesome.

    There is more than one angle here but hopefully ya'll get the idea.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    I got confused when you started talking about getting in gunfights in traffic.
    Just because you chose to focus on that... oh well... carry on... water under the bridge.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by alamo5000 View Post
    Another angle to all this is this:

    All those pigs were shot by two guys with one pistol each. They were thick and we managed to get right up on em and get em cornered.

    I haven't been out for a while because the guy that owned that ranch sold it...but I can easily see this rig as being used for that too. If I am out riding on a 4 wheeler or in the bed of a truck or just hiking through the woods... I want to have extra ammo in some place besides my back pocket. If I can come up with a comfortable light weight rig that would be awesome.

    There is more than one angle here but hopefully ya'll get the idea.
    That's a totally different type of application than when implemented against people.

    For hunting with a magazine fed firearm I'd recommend either having something chest carried, specifically because it keeps weight off your hips and lets you walk around longer.

  8. #53
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    IMO the chest rig, regardless of it's waxing and waning out of fashion, is the best solution for the non-LEO civilian. Properly chosen & set up, it keeps the draw stroke clear from the pistol, allows the carry of more magazines than anyone is likely to need, even at the LARPiest of LARPing classes, and is easy to remove when you get sick of it or hot. I've used one multiple times in Pat Rogers classes, and often come to the line entirely without it for drills that don't require multi-mag-dumps.

    The one I'd buy today would be this one, with three of these and one of these.

    and the only reason for the last bit is that I don't trust most people at the range.

    and I'd add one of these on the belt.
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  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by UWone77 View Post
    LOL.

    alamo, honestly, my first rifle class, I stuffed magazines in my cargo pockets. It worked fine for what it is. I have a couple of plate carriers in the patrol car, but I never have time to deploy them. Over the years, I've just learned to stuff some extra mags in the car door that I can grab a few before I deploy. At the range if you're just looking for something to hold extra mags, I just attach a couple of fastmags to my belt.
    Took my first civilian rifle class much in the same way. I was out there in blue jeans, chucks and a tee shirt. Had my reloads in two blade-tech pouches on my belt. I think the most tacti-cool thing I had with me was a set of knee pads. Because honestly, you ever taken a knee on a sharp ass rock? That sucks, and I am too old for that shit.

    Having been down range and exchanged bad words with dudes who whisper to goats. I took what I needed from that class and dumped the shit I know doesn't work.

  10. #55
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    I think everyone does some filtering in every class, regardless of their current or previous place of employment. I've taken classes with former Delta guys where my takeaways were more about the teaching/learning process than anything specifically having to do with firearms. Why? Because I'm not a Delta guy, don't have a team, don't pick my fights, and have very little in common.

    But, for someone starting out, it's amazing how often you find guys that *think* they know a lot, either due to growing up with guns, or having been in the military, or whatever who lack the basic understanding of the fundamentals of marksmanship and gun-handling. Look up Paul Gardner's article in SWAT, or interview on Ballistic Radio, as just one example of a guy who paid a heavy price because he didn't know what he didn't know. I've been in classes with guys that have seen active duty deployments that never even gave consideration to ammo management (pouches, orientations, reload process, etc.).

    That said, again, if the class you are signed up for as your very first requires you to purchase any sort of extra load carriage, it's probably the wrong class. if said load carriage interferes with your CCW, it's probably the wrong gear. If you're basing your gear choices on a SHTFantasy gunfight wherein you will be deploying an AR, you probably have the wrong mindset to begin with.

    There are, however, courses that are great for the guy that's already been to one or two where having more mags on your person is helpful. There are many guys these days that make it a point of pride to buck the system and carry their mags in all manner of uncomfortable, slow to employ, and just generally unsat methods just so when it's all over they can humblebrag about how great they did whilst carrying magazines in their armpit. No skin off my back, but I prefer for things to go easy, and if I have a course where I need to carry 3+ mags I'm using a chest rig. This after trying various chest rigs, battle belts, duty belts, etc. The best thing about the chest rig is that you can easily ditch it when you don't need it and, provided you've got that belt pouch, not disturb your belt-mounted system one bit.

    I hear a lot of anti-chest-rig folks start up the "train as you'd fight" BS wherein they argue that they won't be wearing a chest rig when they get in their gunfight. Ok, me neither. But when you properly understand ammo management, and your role in the world, you don't load from the chest rig you load from the belt pouch, or the back pocket if that's your thing. The chest rig is just there to feed the emergency reload pouch and/or to feed the gun administratively, so it really has zero "training scars" relative to the "fight".
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  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post

    I hear a lot of anti-chest-rig folks start up the "train as you'd fight" BS wherein they argue that they won't be wearing a chest rig when they get in their gunfight. Ok, me neither. But when you properly understand ammo management, and your role in the world, you don't load from the chest rig you load from the belt pouch, or the back pocket if that's your thing. The chest rig is just there to feed the emergency reload pouch and/or to feed the gun administratively, so it really has zero "training scars" relative to the "fight".
    This helped me better understand the chest rig, and I have a much clearer picture of it.

    Thanks Rob!

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    I think everyone does some filtering in every class, regardless of their current or previous place of employment. I've taken classes with former Delta guys where my takeaways were more about the teaching/learning process than anything specifically having to do with firearms. Why? Because I'm not a Delta guy, don't have a team, don't pick my fights, and have very little in common.

    But, for someone starting out, it's amazing how often you find guys that *think* they know a lot, either due to growing up with guns, or having been in the military, or whatever who lack the basic understanding of the fundamentals of marksmanship and gun-handling. Look up Paul Gardner's article in SWAT, or interview on Ballistic Radio, as just one example of a guy who paid a heavy price because he didn't know what he didn't know. I've been in classes with guys that have seen active duty deployments that never even gave consideration to ammo management (pouches, orientations, reload process, etc.).

    That said, again, if the class you are signed up for as your very first requires you to purchase any sort of extra load carriage, it's probably the wrong class. if said load carriage interferes with your CCW, it's probably the wrong gear. If you're basing your gear choices on a SHTFantasy gunfight wherein you will be deploying an AR, you probably have the wrong mindset to begin with.

    There are, however, courses that are great for the guy that's already been to one or two where having more mags on your person is helpful. There are many guys these days that make it a point of pride to buck the system and carry their mags in all manner of uncomfortable, slow to employ, and just generally unsat methods just so when it's all over they can humblebrag about how great they did whilst carrying magazines in their armpit. No skin off my back, but I prefer for things to go easy, and if I have a course where I need to carry 3+ mags I'm using a chest rig. This after trying various chest rigs, battle belts, duty belts, etc. The best thing about the chest rig is that you can easily ditch it when you don't need it and, provided you've got that belt pouch, not disturb your belt-mounted system one bit.

    I hear a lot of anti-chest-rig folks start up the "train as you'd fight" BS wherein they argue that they won't be wearing a chest rig when they get in their gunfight. Ok, me neither. But when you properly understand ammo management, and your role in the world, you don't load from the chest rig you load from the belt pouch, or the back pocket if that's your thing. The chest rig is just there to feed the emergency reload pouch and/or to feed the gun administratively, so it really has zero "training scars" relative to the "fight".
    Sorry guys. I have been extremely overwhelmed with work and other stuff the past couple days.

    Rob definitely makes a whole lot of valid points... stuff that I have definitely considered before. Before I sign up for a class I want to make sure it's from someone who will teach me properly. I used to ski competitively and there were schools all over the place, but nothing is worse that having to 'unlearn' something.

    On one hand I kind of need to sharpen the stick a little bit and figure out more of what I would want out of a class.

    As I said odds are if I ever get into any kind of altercation where I am forced to fight anyone there is about a 98% chance that will be someone trying to mug me on the street in Houston, not getting all kitted up with a frickin' helmet and kevlar vest.

    That said be at least familiar with 'combat' or fighting or whatever kind of AR skills would be both fun and useful to some degree if even for general knowledge. Included in that 'combat' or whatever is exactly one thing that Rob pointed out... ammo management which is really the thing I was kind of asking about.

    As for sheer practical use for me it will be my 'for fun' shooting, practicing to maybe enter a 2 or 3 gun competition, and of course hog hunting situations. Again I am not looking to spend a fortune to accomplish those goals.

    Anyway I have to head out to work. Back on later.

    One question though, why in your opinion are chest rigs 'controversial'...or what is the criticism of them? Why do some people hate em?

  13. #58
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    To follow up on that on your chest you can carry a lot more crap but then again you probably won't need it all and it does look like it will be slower. Trading speed for comfort maybe?

    For the belt it seems like it might have more overall practical use for a day to day shooter.

    I do see where the LEOs here say that just a couple of mags are OK for day to day stuff. If you don't get it done with one or two mags then that situation is either very nuts or you can't shoot straight. Extra mags won't help the latter...

    Close? Am I warm?

  14. #59
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    I guess if you're going to parachute in behind enemy lines and be there for a week taking over a village that's one thing. If you roll up on a crazy person with a machete that's another. And if you're on a SWAT team going in to capture a bad guy that's something else.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    I think everyone does some filtering in every class, regardless of their current or previous place of employment. I've taken classes with former Delta guys where my takeaways were more about the teaching/learning process than anything specifically having to do with firearms. Why? Because I'm not a Delta guy, don't have a team, don't pick my fights, and have very little in common.

    But, for someone starting out, it's amazing how often you find guys that *think* they know a lot, either due to growing up with guns, or having been in the military, or whatever who lack the basic understanding of the fundamentals of marksmanship and gun-handling. Look up Paul Gardner's article in SWAT, or interview on Ballistic Radio, as just one example of a guy who paid a heavy price because he didn't know what he didn't know. I've been in classes with guys that have seen active duty deployments that never even gave consideration to ammo management (pouches, orientations, reload process, etc.).

    That said, again, if the class you are signed up for as your very first requires you to purchase any sort of extra load carriage, it's probably the wrong class. if said load carriage interferes with your CCW, it's probably the wrong gear. If you're basing your gear choices on a SHTFantasy gunfight wherein you will be deploying an AR, you probably have the wrong mindset to begin with.

    There are, however, courses that are great for the guy that's already been to one or two where having more mags on your person is helpful. There are many guys these days that make it a point of pride to buck the system and carry their mags in all manner of uncomfortable, slow to employ, and just generally unsat methods just so when it's all over they can humblebrag about how great they did whilst carrying magazines in their armpit. No skin off my back, but I prefer for things to go easy, and if I have a course where I need to carry 3+ mags I'm using a chest rig. This after trying various chest rigs, battle belts, duty belts, etc. The best thing about the chest rig is that you can easily ditch it when you don't need it and, provided you've got that belt pouch, not disturb your belt-mounted system one bit.

    I hear a lot of anti-chest-rig folks start up the "train as you'd fight" BS wherein they argue that they won't be wearing a chest rig when they get in their gunfight. Ok, me neither. But when you properly understand ammo management, and your role in the world, you don't load from the chest rig you load from the belt pouch, or the back pocket if that's your thing. The chest rig is just there to feed the emergency reload pouch and/or to feed the gun administratively, so it really has zero "training scars" relative to the "fight".
    I have read his article. The rifle training I received at the unit level was great and extensive too the point of burn out. However, it wasn't until my 2nd fire fight did I figure out what works and what didn't. It didn't take long for me to change my gear load out. Being right handed, I kept my ready reloads on my left, and cross fed to refill my ready loads from the right if I had time. It was also at this time I learned with GI mags to keep 27 rounds in them and not 30. Something I still do to this day with my first two and last two rounds being tracers. I feel my time in the infantry and combat taught me how to fight and work rifles very well.

    That being said, when it came to hand gun shooting I knew jack shit after leaving the Army. I had to learn that by taking a few more classes, and training with people who carried a hand gun for work every day. I learned how to shoot a handgun well from a retired one eyed police detective, and built up my skills from there. Now I just need to find a one eyed Mexican to practice my Spanish with for work.

    My only issue with a chest rig is shooting in the prone.

    To the OP. I think you have been given some good advice and I know the whole mind set and class thing isn't the answer you were asking for. However, I think in the end you will find the answers to your question about your gear needs by taking a class. Everyone needs a basic foundation to work from and you can build your mindset and gear from there.

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