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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by alamo5000 View Post
    To follow up on that on your chest you can carry a lot more crap but then again you probably won't need it all and it does look like it will be slower. Trading speed for comfort maybe?

    For the belt it seems like it might have more overall practical use for a day to day shooter.

    I do see where the LEOs here say that just a couple of mags are OK for day to day stuff. If you don't get it done with one or two mags then that situation is either very nuts or you can't shoot straight. Extra mags won't help the latter...

    Close? Am I warm?
    Be realistic with you spot in life. Are you in a job now where you have to go into harms way daily? Because if not and you find yourself alone in a situation doing multiple mag dumps, God hates you.

    That doesn't mean to not be prepared and have the training.

  2. #62
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    If by danger you mean you mean going out to try and score with hot sorority girls then yeah, I do that all the time. :)

    The answer to going into dangerous situations is no.

    Realistically a pistol class would benefit me more than anything. I carry all the time so from a practical standpoint that would probably come first. That said a rifle/carbine class would also be a good thing.

    I'm with all of y'all on that point.

    I will also say that honestly I have learned quite a bit just from this thread... At least to get me thinking about things.

  3. #63
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    I think the keys are to (1) know your role (2) prepare adequately and realistically for it and (3) know when your role changes and what to do about it.

    For virtually everyone in the US, the handgun is the primary. The preponderance of training, practice, instruction, gear selection, thinking, etc. should all be related to the handgun. However, if you believe that a rifle/carbine may be part of your role, then you also need to devote time and thought and training and money to that as well.

    And there is NOTHING wrong with having fun with a gun. Shooting is fun. Buying shit is fun. Talking about guns is fun. The hard truth is that most of us, "pros" or not, wouldn't be on this site if it wasn't fun.

    So whether you're at the training class for fun, or for a perceived need, or a real need, the end result is the same. And your role, when you're at a class, is that of the student.

    I wouldn't say the chest rig is "controversial", only that it goes in and out of fashion and every johnny-come-lately thinks he's breaking new ground while those of us that have been around a bit have pretty much already seen it all come and go and come back again. I couldn't tell you if the chest rig is back in fashion now or not, only that I've always liked them, but I've always treated them as an easy way to carry mags and other gear to the line, not as some piece of fighting equipment I'm going to pick up and put on before I go "clear" my house. Whether or not they are an issue in the prone is pretty personal as it has to do with body size/shape, how you wear it, what you put on it, the position you choose to shoot prone, etc. Again, I think the primary criticism for most people has more to do with their lack of understanding of how to properly use them and their own vanity issues with not wanting to look like they are trying to hard. The truth is the guy that selectively picks all his training gear so as to not look "tactical" is just as wrong as the guy that buys everything in multicam for his accounting job.
    WWW.TACTICALYELLOWVISOR.NET

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    I think the keys are to (1) stay in your swim lane, kid.
    Ftfy

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo_man View Post
    Ftfy
    that's a really tired expression, since it never really meant anything when people started using it. It's mostly a term used when people (a) don't know their own lane or (b) don't have a real response or (c) get uncomfortable with whatever was posted to begin with. it also implies that crossing out of the lane somehow hurts someone else, and the only person LARPing (typically) hurts is the LARPer.
    WWW.TACTICALYELLOWVISOR.NET

  6. #66
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    If all you're doing is carrying mags around for ease of access outside a fighting situation, consider a subload. Not particularly useful outside of carrying mags while walking, but if that's all you're doing...

    It's a lot easier to throw on a chest rig on a EDC set-up, since you'll probably not have to remove your EDC holster (AIWB might have some issues), while on a war belt you'd have to have a holster on the belt itself, while removing the holster you're already wearing, along with anything else you might have on your belt (EDC magazine, phone holster, etc.). The chest rig is more practical for day-to-day use, while the war belt might have an edge in a class environment where you're planning on staying kitted up for long periods of time outside of your EDC set-up.

    If your main concern is realistic self-defense, forget all this stuff, and go take a ShivWorks ECQC course. That's a very different rabbit hole, and arguably a far more functional one for the average citizen CONUS, LE or not.

  7. #67
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    Re: Playing the "what if game" or "war gaming" as we call it is a good first step to being mentally prepared for s fight.
    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    I disagree. Strongly.

    Playing the what-if game is what led to a guy with zero training starting a thread asking what plate carrier he should buy.
    I disagree, with your disagree. "What if" or "if, then" thinking is something that it taught at basic training levels to get people thinking and develop a plan. That plan can and should evolve as experience is gained. The body is slow to go where the mind has not already been. Of course mental rehearsal can be escalated to the point of stupidity (mutant alien zombie apocalypse scenario) and perhaps that's what you are referring to.

  8. #68
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    I think another thing people who are trying to figure out gear lose sight of is that just because they see a "Pro" using something doesn't mean it's a) a good thing, or b) it's something that "Pro" actually prefers. Sometimes stuff gets issued that's crap, but it serves the overall purpose which is much more than then employing a weapon (I'm looking at you, drop leg holster...you horrible, horrible thing).

    It's also important to keep in mind that just because Group A uses something in a certain role doesn't mean that Group B should use the same thing in a related, but different role. For work, I carry a huge, heavy radio and a SCUBA bottle on my vest. I've never had to use them (fortunately), but I wouldn't want to be without them. However when I do the same basic function on my own time for recreation, I don't have any of that, and that's fine because it's not the same "mission" with the same risks.

    The same argument can be applied to the carrier/belt argument. Like rob_s, if I wear a carrier, it's a simple one to just carry mags (probably in a class). Otherwise (or in concert with), I'm wearing a Grunt Gear belt (which I love). It serves my recreational purpose. If I actually had to carry killing machines for some sort of work, the belt would be horrible, because it's not really compatible with being in a vehicle.

    Basically I'm just repeating what others have said...figure out the end use and then get gear based on that.

  9. #69
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    No one person's advice is right or wrong; its just what works for that individual. You can't attach value to any advice if you haven't paid some dues. Namely, trying some of the gear you want to use for yourself. You have a preference for holsters by now; is it because somebody told you to use it, or did you have to go through some trial and error? Nothing, not the most safe advice from the most prime operators will work for you if you don't have fundamentals and rudimentary knowledge. Everybody who has responded to this thread has a trail of cast-off gear. Why? Because they had to find out for themselves what works and what doesn't.

    One thing is consistent: Training. Get some. Practice is great, but its not the same. are you out to have fun, or get real about some skills? One way or the other. Shooting is fun. You don't need training to shoot. Training is to control your head and your actions. Nobody springs from the womb with the kind of self-control that weapons training teaches.
    There's no "Team" in F**K YOU!

  10. #70
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    Here is my take so far on all this stuff up to this point. Personally I don't follow 'pros' nearly as much as many other people do. I am pretty suspicious of a lot of the self proclaimed professionals in fact. I don't even know who most of the 'gun pros' are to be honest. I couldn't name 2 or 3 of them if I tried.

    Personally I try to look for the good in people and give them the benefit of the doubt. If those pros pass my no assholes rule and have something meaningful and useful to say then they have my full attention. I might or might not fully adopt everything said because honestly some of that stuff might not apply to me. I certainly will not go out and buy a $2500 wigit just because Kanye bought one too. Fuck him.

    That said most of the people who really know stuff don't have to talk shit to get their point across. They can give educated effective communication of their points and leave it at that. Case and point... the other day I was on facebook and ran across some thread on a friend's wall or something and next thing you know I was conversing with a person I didn't even know. He was a pretty pleasant person and turned out to be quite knowledgeable. I was impressed not only by what he knew but how he carried himself. Those kind of instructors are exactly what I am after.

    That said I dislike being talked down to or whatever. Yeah I might not be a SEAL but if you are that's still no excuse to be an asshole. Basically we need more mentors and less James Yeagers. I met that guy once and didn't have a clue who he was (this was pre youtube meltdown).

    That said youtube and other places are a platform for some pretty neat stuff to get out there in the public but everything should be up for scrutiny.

    As for my intents and uses I think I could make use of one of those speed mag pouches, build a simple war belt, and maybe even have a simple chest rig. I think I could make use of all three at various times. As many have pointed out for my different uses certain things might work better.

    Part of my purpose isn't always to tell me exactly how to spend my money, but rather how to think it through and figure out what kind of stuff I might actually need or use.

    What I wind up with in the end, hell I still don't know. I might go find a place and try on a basic war belt and try on a basic chest rig to see how it fits and it will also let me visualize how I might use it.

    As others have stated there is not a 100% right answer. I am not in any big hurry to get something. I would rather take my time, think it through and buy right (or close to right) the first time and tweak from there.

    And of course a class or three are definitely on the table because at the end of the day for me shooting is fun....but at this point for me it's not just about having stuff ie a bad ass expensive gun and making noise... I want to be beyond that and build up more skills. It really doesn't matter what it is.. once I get interested in something I am a voracious learner. Pistol classes rifle classes... you name it I will try to soak it all up. The only real thing limiting me is paying for it all.

    I just have to find people that can live with my way of learning which is to sometimes ask a lot of questions. I try not to ask stupid questions but nobody is perfect.

  11. #71
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    Interesting discussion. I appreciate those that have taken the time to meaningfully contribute. Alamo is obvious pretty good and being quick to admit that he doesn't know what he doesn't know, so thanks for putting yourself out there.

    Weapons aren't part of my day job, and I'm one of those guys that probably came out of a my Army contract knowing less about firearms than I did when entered the service. I was a REMF. And an officer. So my preferred weapon was PowerPoint.

    Point being, I don't know much either. But back over the holidays I took advantage of the SKD Christmas sale and picked up enough HSGI stuff to put together a nice little battle belt with two pistol mag pouches and one carbine mag pouch:

    HSG.511-0007 HSGI COBRA Riggers Belt - Black - X-Large
    HSG.712-0004 HSGI Micro Grip Belt Panel - X-Large
    HSG.714-0009 HSGI Double Pistol TACO Pouch - Wolf Grey - Belt Mount
    HSG.705-0005 HSGI Belt Mounted TACO - Wolf Gray

    I already had a Safariland holster (for a G19) and plan to add one more pouch to the belt for my Surefire and one for a trauma kit.

    I struggled with the decision to purchase the items above for quite some time and had been going back and forth on a battle belt vs chest rig or even just a bug-out bag, but I think I made the right decision for me and my intended usage, which is: Primary: something goes bump in the night, I wanted something I could easily wear regardless of how I'm dressed; Secondary: a reasonable rig for having fun at the range or taking a pistol or carbine course.

    I don't really envision a scenario where I'd wear this out in the world, but I did want something that wouldn't draw unwanted attention if I needed to wear it in public. I subscribe the "gray" philosophy, meaning I don't wear multi-cam or anything with molle out in public and don't have stickers on my vehicle. The belt with gray pouches is fairly low profile (physically and visually) and is easily concealed by a light jacket.

    For the home, I also subscribe to the philosophy that the best use of a handgun is to help you safely get to your carbine. My expectation would be that once I reach the safe, I'd holster the pistol and switch to carbine. One extra mag should be plenty. As someone else said, if I can't take care of business in 60 rounds through a carbine then life really sucks, but I'll have 45 rounds for my secondary. I've got a small shoulder bag that holds 6 carbine mags if I ever have one of those days (nights?). As has been stated, it would just help me feed my ready mag.

    Honestly, I haven't even run the setup yet. The fun bays at the range have't been available on the days I've been. I do also need to order the inner velcro belt to wear with pants when at the range, but the default setup is with the microgrip panel that provides padding and purchase w/o using the belt loops of the pants.

    Other considerations: I hate velcro (it's loud). The tacos will accept mags from about any platform, so can be used for AR, AK, or G3/FAL/AR10. You can add suspenders/shoulder harness to the belt if it gets too heavy. The drop leg panels for mags actually looks like a workable solution for some situations.

    Anyway, I'm not proscribing an answer, just talking through the thought process I went through to select my gear. As others have said, though, I may dump the whole thing in a few years after I learn more about what works best for me. Or I might find that I got lucky and my informed decision was spot-on.

    Cheers.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    I'm with you there. The good news is that the bottom feeders will just eat each other, leaving precious few needing attention after the fact. If you survive the first week, you're a king.

    That's why I'm voting Sanders. Push the bus off the cliff and see who survives. I can guarantee you one thing, none of them will have barfcom logins.
    After what I witnessed with the Baltimore riots I'd say a week to 10 days 90% of the cities would be destroyed in a true collapse of government. The survivors coming out would be some hardened bastards.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoilerUp View Post
    Interesting discussion. I appreciate those that have taken the time to meaningfully contribute. Alamo is obvious pretty good and being quick to admit that he doesn't know what he doesn't know, so thanks for putting yourself out there.

    Weapons aren't part of my day job, and I'm one of those guys that probably came out of a my Army contract knowing less about firearms than I did when entered the service. I was a REMF. And an officer. So my preferred weapon was PowerPoint.
    Thank you. I see no need to try and bullshit people. It is what it is. There is a whole lot of extremely good information here. I am a habitual question asker so I will also give a big thank you to those who take time to offer meaningful suggestions and meaningful explanations. I really like it when people take the time to share red meat answers.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by SINNER View Post
    After what I witnessed with the Baltimore riots I'd say a week to 10 days 90% of the cities would be destroyed in a true collapse of government. The survivors coming out would be some hardened bastards.
    While it wasn't a riot when they had that mandatory evacuation for Houston (I was living down there at the time) it took me 18 hours of being stuck on the road in the streets to get about 60 miles by car. It was absolute chaos on the streets. All the radio stations were all broadcasting the same emergency messages over and over. No music. Just emergency broadcasts. It was pretty freaky.

    Fortunately people were all being good to each other. Passing out water bottles to each other... one guy was bbq'ing on his tail gate and would walk around to cars offering hot dogs and hamburgers. When traffic would move he would pull up 10 feet then resume cooking. LOL!

    Now imagine if people weren't being polite to each other. I could see things easily getting out of hand.

    Houston is about one of the most armed places in America. It would be absolutely insane for anyone to even consider trying to invade that place. Oh hell naw. That shit just wouldn't fly.

  15. #75
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    Here's what I like and if anybody agrees, I'll be surprised. A messenger bag. That's it. Got room for plenty of mags, some hemcon,, even a backup sidearm. It serves as the dump pouch as well. It stays with me, and can be in front of me, or behind me. Plus, with the flap closed, it's gray. Of course, the rifle ' z dead giveaway, but that's why I'll take a gig bag over a hard case any day.
    There's no "Team" in F**K YOU!

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