Fastest way to clean your carrier groups

[Slippers]

That's reason #1 for the piston.

Wait, what? You want a piston because you believe it will run cleaner with a suppressor? Prepare to be disappointed. A piston setup doesn't help at all with reducing the amount of crud coming back from the barrel/chamber when shooting suppressed. Both piston and DI run equally dirty suppressed.

[Joelski]

I undrrstood. Thanks.

[DUX]

I undrrstood. Thanks.

Just put some crisco on it; it be a'ite! :)

[Joelski]

Just put some crisco on it; it be a'ite! :)

I'm gonna put two suppressors, clean it half as often as the worst pig here and be twice as cool as Elvis. F@ck yeah!

[gatordev]

I have looked into this and if you think for a minute that piston guns will be cleaner when running a suppressor I have a bridge to sell you.

...lots of words...

I don't know what to tell you. x00 rounds, suppressed through my op rod gun will have a cleaner chamber and BCG than x00 rounds through a DI gun. It's certainly not pristine, but it does run cleaner, per round. Now the outside of the gun is a different matter. But if the concern is the internals of the weapon, just based on how the system is designed, an op-rod gun is going to be cleaner.

A far more valuable and relevant argument is whether all the other costs of an op rod gun are worth it. Gigabytes of internet are devoted to such arguments.

[Joelski]

I don't know what to tell you. x00 rounds, suppressed through my op rod gun will have a cleaner chamber and BCG than x00 rounds through a DI gun. It's certainly not pristine, but it does run cleaner, per round. Now the outside of the gun is a different matter. But if the concern is the internals of the weapon, just based on how the system is designed, an op-rod gun is going to be cleaner.

A far more valuable and relevant argument is whether all the other costs of an op rod gun are worth it. Gigabytes of internet are devoted to such arguments.

gatordev: THANK YOU.

What other costs are there if you are not an obsessive tweaker? I care nothing for specialized parts if the blackout works as advertised.

[UWone77]

I don't know what to tell you. x00 rounds, suppressed through my op rod gun will have a cleaner chamber and BCG than x00 rounds through a DI gun. It's certainly not pristine, but it does run cleaner, per round. Now the outside of the gun is a different matter. But if the concern is the internals of the weapon, just based on how the system is designed, an op-rod gun is going to be cleaner.

A far more valuable and relevant argument is whether all the other costs of an op rod gun are worth it. Gigabytes of internet are devoted to such arguments.

Agreed. I have exactly 2 Piston Guns, both kits. Superlative and an Adams Arms.

Both guns are cleaner internally, but filthy at the Piston. In fact the Adams is so filthy, the plug will not budge now. Can't move it to suppressed mode.

[Joelski]

I'd done some reading and wasn't 100% sure, but I did have my coffee this morning. Thank you both for validating my hopes.

Now, does the SA block fit under the Mk4 rail, or what?

Also, as the SA block shoots the gas forward, how cruddy does the back of the can get and does it make it hard to release? Thanks man!

[rob_s]

I clean each, or every other time i go out and I nofmally shoot up to 500 rounds in a day in the field. For cleaning, I disassemble, clean with Hoppe's and a brass brush, lube with synthetic, either Royal Purple, or Mobil 1.

Probably overkill but so what?

If you know you're over-killing it, then why are you looking to change to a piston?

[Joelski]

Why do people buy new rails? Why doesn't everybody adhere strictly to the COLT-version of Mil-Spec? Why indeed, did Sir Edmund Hillary climb Mount Everest?

Because its something else to waste my money on!

[JGifford]

That's reason #1 for the piston.

That's the number 1 reason people buy them, but they don't like to be suppressed, truth be told. Suppressing a piston gun sucks, compared to the Stoner system.

[JGifford]

I don't know what to tell you. x00 rounds, suppressed through my op rod gun will have a cleaner chamber and BCG than x00 rounds through a DI gun. It's certainly not pristine, but it does run cleaner, per round. Now the outside of the gun is a different matter. But if the concern is the internals of the weapon, just based on how the system is designed, an op-rod gun is going to be cleaner.

A far more valuable and relevant argument is whether all the other costs of an op rod gun are worth it. Gigabytes of internet are devoted to such arguments.

A better question is...is this mechanically superior? I ran my suppressed stoner system for 1500+ rounds of Wolf day in and day out for 3 days, lubed only with MPRO7 LPX, initially, with no additional lube. Ran like a champ. Even when I took the can off at the end, still cycled. With Wolf 55gr black-box.

Keep in mind that AAC had to re-design their suppressors to keep from breaking the HK416 in testing, the AUG had a special gas-port insert to allow suppressed use, and the SCAR is on what now, Revision 7, 8? Ask Jim Fuller about a suppressed AK build sometime. He will tell you what a pain it was to design things so that they worked CORRECTLY and with longevity in mind.

The Stoner system allows more..."elasticity" in the system, by design. This makes it quieter, and less abusive to parts, if correctly gassed. This elasticity is why you don't need an adjustable gas-block for function with the Stoner system, and why every piston system I am aware of that was designed for suppressed use has either an adjustable system, or is abusively rough on parts and had to have a special lower back-pressure can made for it. Why do you think HK hopped in bed so fast with OSS, while none of the Stoner system companies have? Pistons hate additional back-pressure...

[JGifford]

Wait, what? You want a piston because you believe it will run cleaner with a suppressor? Prepare to be disappointed. A piston setup doesn't help at all with reducing the amount of crud coming back from the barrel/chamber when shooting suppressed. Both piston and DI run equally dirty suppressed.

100% exactly. The filth in my weapon after 1500+ rounds suppressed had JACK and SHIT to do with the little puff of gas coming out of the gas tube, lol

Notice all the build-up on the OUTSIDE of the gas-key where it would be impossible to have been deposited by the gas-tube, as well as other similarly unlikely areas if that were the mechanism. Now, with a piston system, understand that timing is even worse, typically, because the elastic nature of the stoner system is replaced with a metal rod.

[JGifford]

@rob_s: I guess I over clean my weapons. Force of habit I suppose.

@joelski: All of my AR's are direct impingement so I can't speak to a piston driven AR, but the cleanest firing rifle I ever shot was the Vz.58. I can shoot 300 rounds out of that rifle and it's always been just a shop towel wipe down on the carrier to clean it and that's it. Just my 2 cents.

Check out the backwash down the bore from a suppressed VZ-58:


Skip to 1:45, and a few seconds later, with the greenery as a backdrop, you can see all the high-pressure filth being blasted into the workings of the weapon.


Also take into account that the 7.62x39 round has SIGNIFICANTLY lower chamber/bore pressures than the 5.56x45 round.

[Joelski]

Both guns are cleaner internally, but filthy at the Piston. In fact the Adams is so filthy, the plug will not budge now. Can't move it to suppressed mode.

A short blast of brake cleaner will make that stuff fall off.