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  1. #1
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    Are all lowers (and uppers) created equal? Of course not, but...

    OK this is something I have been mulling over while considering my next build. I'm still pretty novice in comparison to a lot of you, but I'm catching on pretty quick and enjoy just shopping all the options that are out there. These days, I have found lowers for $35 to $450+ now they all technically do the same thing. My first AR was a build with a DSA ZM4 I won in a drawing post sandy hook, at the time it sold for $150. It works, it gets the job done and does it well. But two things I don't like, one being the finish, it shows scuffing pretty easy, the other is the flange the grip mounts to was too wide for for both the CMMG grip that came with my LPK and the MOE grip I purchased for the build. Needless to say some modification was needed. So obviously, those two things are issues you encounter with lesser priced/lower quality lowers. Billet lowers, by design cost more than forged, thats the norm for anything billet. I have 2 RRA forged lowers I picked up cheap that seem to have a bit better finish, and I miked the grip flange, and it is a bit narrower so I expect they will accommodate the grip better. I have my sights on a Spikes Honey Badger lower for my next build, why, I don't know. I just like it, and Spikes is a respected brand, so $115 to me, is a good price, even though I'm going to have to wait a few weeks. So my question is, where is the acceptable price range for a good quality, decent priced lower when you can buy an Anderson for near nothing, or get warthogs and hell breakers for 10 times that? I feel like at some point the line crosses over to name and flash vs functionality and reliability. I know now that my DSA lower is NOT worth $150, but this is an election year with a bleak outlook so hell, the DSA might be worth $200 in 8 months.

    Now I ask this not taking into account politics and the state of the American public, because that can make these prices fluctuate in a way few can predict. I'm mainly wondering what your alls thoughts are on the line where a good lower turns into an overpriced lower, when IMO, there are a lot of very good ones sub $200. Also know, I'm not here to knock anyone spending way more than I ever intend to, its your money and your gun. I'd like to have a billet set, but for me the hobbyist, I don't know if its worth the extra money.

  2. #2
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    A lower becomes overpriced when you decline to spend the money on it. Its all subjective. Like you said, as long as a lower is in spec everything should work as it should. The problem with some of the "cheap" lowers is that their QA suffers and you get more parts that are out of spec or have issues with the finish. Think Anderson. Many people build rifles off Anderson receivers and they will swear by them until the day they die. In my experience I had an Anderson upper that the Pic rail was out of spec and there were some accessories that would not mount to it. I then had an Anderson buffer tube that was out of spec and was too narrow which caused the buffer to rub on it and caused short cycling. Nothing else Anderson will ever go on one of my rifles.

    As far as lowers, those Hellbreakers and such do the same thing, but look rad to some people so they can sell them at a premium. Are they overpriced? Not to the person who thinks its the most badass thing on the planet. To others it is obviously overpriced.

    I just bought a Noveske Lower receiver (forged) which was also a chainsaw. It was $165 plus shipping, plus transfer. Most would call this overpriced, but to me it was not. I wanted it. I really wanted it. The only reason I wanted it so bad was that I like the rollmark and like Noveske. But, a Spikes lower at $100 will do the same thing. An Aero lower at $80 will also do the same thing. Anderson still sucks .

    IMO, the sweet spot is with Aero Precision at around $80. They are well made receivers with good QA and always have a nice finish. I think Spikes has decent lowers as well at $100. The thing that Spikes has going for it though, is that it has some cool roll marks (I have a Crusader lower for this reason) which is reason enough for most people who like the$20.

    But again, its all subjective.

  3. #3
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    I agree with that mentality. Guess that's true for a lot of things in life.

    I've seen some psa uppers where the pic rail was a little off also.
    Last edited by KW900A; 30 April 2016 at 13:52.

  4. #4
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    Here is my two cents on the matter.

    Yes a lot of them do the same thing and 'get the job done'....but then again it depends on what that job really is. If you set the gun in the safe for 9 months out of the year and shoot it every once in a while then almost anything will do.

    That said I have seen lowers that were broken in half, namely polymer ones but others as well. That part where the buffer tube screws in there I have seen broken off a few times. I have also seen the ears where the trigger guard connects broken off... given that was operator error but would you pay more for a integrated trigger guard that you don't need to worry about?

    This list is in no order, but first is materials. Some materials are better than others for specific jobs. Next is where the tire really meets the road and that is machine work. I have seen lowers where none of the holes line up. Even an upper from the same company didn't line up with the holes for the lower of the same brand. That is some real BS there but it happens. Same thing for the pins for the trigger... not in spec...The more care and effort they put into machining the parts the right way the better. For me, I hate upper/lower wobble and some types of uppers and lowers are more prone to have it. Of course nothing is 100% but some are better than others.

    In the end it all depends on what kind of gun you want to build. If you are going to have something you throw behind the seat of the truck it might not matter. But me, I derive enjoyment from having a little bit nicer of stuff. It's no different than someone who will go wax their car by hand... merely because they like it.

    I have never manufactured a lower or an upper or anything for that matter.... but to be able to get everything consistent every single time requires a certain level of competence and professionalism. Some are much better than others.

    Then of course you have the finish of it...some look rather sloppy if you ask me... others are much better. Again it boils down to professionalism in each step of the process...Selecting the right kind of materials...to having a guy that runs the milling machine that gives a damn what he's doing... on to the choice of coating or anodizing... it all has to be done right... and then your upper has to mate with it right...Which is the main reason why I personally stay away from mixing different uppers with different lowers. You can't talk about a lower without mentioning the upper and if that fit sucks the build will suck or it will have those quirks in it forever. It can be anything from an out of spec pic rail to any number of things...

    My motto is 'choose wisely' and at least try to know what you are looking at (and for)... and once you do know (to some degree) you can start to see which ones start to cross the line into the 'this ain't worth that much' territory.

    And also I take into account the no assholes rule too. I don't care how nice the uppers and lowers are... if the manufacturers are assholes or have terrible service then I just stay away from it.

  5. #5
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    That said, do you have any experience with umbrella Corp? They are a va company, and I actually just came across them today. A set is about $300, but I'm all about supporting local business if it's a good product.

  6. #6
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    I agree with everything rxer said, he really hit the nail on the head and said it well. To me Aero is far and away the best value for the money, and as good or better than other forged, or even a lot of billet receivers (with the exclusion of some billet special features).

    I can say that because while my main go to gun has an Umbrella billet lower, my last two lower purchases were from Aero. As was my last upper and bcg. Granted these are all for spares, and may become a spare rifle instead of spare parts, but there you go.

    I've also got a Noveske gen 2 forged lower. I got it because I wanted it, the smooth looks and flared magwell appealed to me. I got the Umbrella billet lower because I wanted it, and for multiple reasons. It's ADAC capabilities, the flared magwell which I knew I liked based on my experience with my Noveske, and (being a former machinist) its 3D logo made my inner machinist sqeal with delight. Plus it's known unobtainium and I had the chance to snag one.

    Realize that not ALL of those things are performance related. Assuming all else is equal, we just pick what best matches the shapes in our head. If the performance isn't there due to poor QC or whatever, or if it doesn't resonate with the the shapes in our head, it's overpriced.

    ETA: Oh, and to more directly answer your question about Umbrella, yes. They are good to go. Their finishes on their billet vs. forged receivers don't seem to always match, but their products are super solid and their quality is sublime. That said, it's usually difficult to find any of their products in stock anywhere, even their grips. I briefly thought about putting my Umbrella billet lower on the shelf, right beside my vial of unicorn tears and a couple dragon scales, but nah. I wanted to use it. So I did.
    Last edited by Aragorn; 30 April 2016 at 17:20.
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  7. #7
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    So I did do a little reading on umbrella Corp after you said they were very rare. Looks like people go nuts when they are in stock. I'd really just like to have one since they are local, but I'm not going to go nuts for one. Thanks for sharing your experience though, I will definitely keep an eye out for one.

    Now I am in no way saying why buy a $300 lower when you can buy one for $50. I know quality is a big factor. In my line of work, precision is crucial so I'm not one to cut corners on quality. When I still had Facebook I screen shotted who know how many stickman and zero7one posts, because at my very novice level, I trusted their reviews or even just pictures. I knew they wouldn't post junk. Those are still the companies I browse. I don't know enough to know who the good guys are and who the assholes are, but I read, a lot. I know my price ceiling, but it's always good to hear what you guys think. The market for parts and accessories is so big, one person with endless cash flow would die of old age before they got to check it all out.

  8. #8
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    In spec matters most. Had noveske forged lowers not worth shit, had Olympic Arms lowers work great.

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