Scope talk

[mustangfreek]

Allright fellas up late and thinking again..lol
Have a pst and bushnell 1-4 and their good for closer or medium range work, not so much groups as seeing the tiny holes on 4x is hard..so needing to get something with more magnification and will be replacing the bushy 1-4..

So I'm looking around and reading up but my head hurts and most local shops don't have squat to look at.. Allright so looking for something decent with more magnification and won't break the bank too bad, want to get out and shoot some groups/bang steel/creatures at longer range and be able to see/track it better.

So discuss what your using, good or bad ..will be on top of an ar15 for now

[BoilerUp]

Hard to go wrong with staying in the PST line. But if all you really need is something for precision shooting and known distances during range trips, then you'll be buying a lot of features you really don't need from the PST (reticle, illumination, and tall turrets) and the money wold be better spent on nicer glass with a simple duplex. You could either save some money by getting viper glass in one of the simpler models (like the baseline Viper, the HS or even the Diamondback HP) or spend the same money or a bit more money and get nicer glass.

How much you looking to spend? $700 will get you the entry level Swarovski Z3 3-9x and your eyes will thank you. If you are really on a budget, check out the Redfield Revolution. Also, it's pretty much always a safe bet just to buy the most expensive Leupold you can afford with the features you need. If you are shooting 200 yards and in don't waste the money on fancy reticles or FFP.

[BoilerUp]

And Cabela's just put the Viper HS line on sale, plus coupon code 16CAVE gives you an additional discount. HS 4-16x44 = $395.89 after coupon code

http://www.cabelas.com/product/barga...es/1394449.uts

The 2.5-10x44 is also a good choice. 10x is plenty good out to 200 yards and is $278.89 after the code

[SINNER]

Meh. Capped turrets and that garbage reticle. Vortex screwed up big time with the HS optics that use the V-plex reticle.

[mustangfreek]

Thanks boiler for the info, I'm with ya on the vortex pst, don't need the illumination as I don't ever use it on my 1-4

Just spitballing right now but want something useful and be able to range stuff out there, using a 1-4 gets old when you can't spot the holes or splash especially when your by yourself..

I hear ya sinner, those hs scopes look decent but the damn v plex reticle ,capped turrets really just push me away-the hs-t line was Better imo with the turrets, reticle and no illumination..

They need to branch out and offer some other restocked on their scopes slot of people don't want a plain v plex or generic bdc..I'm picky/OCD but unless it's s 22 I don't want those sorta reticles

What else is decent out there, do I dare say PA's scopes? Only shortly used their first gen 1-6 but never seen another version in person..

[mustangfreek]

Damnit..Then I just see this link for 4-16x50 Vortex pst for $500..decent deal but seems almost overkill for a 556 ar....humm

http://www.eurooptic.com/vortex-vipe...7-05ccfdd6667f

[BoilerUp]

Meh. Capped turrets and that garbage reticle. Vortex screwed up big time with the HS optics that use the V-plex reticle.

While I understand the sentiment, I disagree. The HS line is made for hunters who, as a market segment, generally prefer clean reticles and capped turrets. Again, if you are shooting under 200 yards, you generally don't need to touch your turrets anyway (and that 2.5-10x44 is a great choice). A hunter can remove the caps once in the stand/position and a bench shooter can remove the caps on the bench. Hell, if it bothers you that much, you can leave them off all the time. They still look like decent turrets under the caps. So while the setup may not meet your needs, this has traditionally been a popular configuration for hunters. The fact that they are heavily discounting these suggests that may be changing. But there are also lot of hunters and "consumer shooters" who aren't really that knowledgeable about rifles/scopes, too, and tend to be drawn to high magnification, large objectives, and busy reticles that they never learn to use anyway. :)

But, I understand your point. I personally have come to prefer Horus style reticles for distance shooting and capped turrets. My favorite of my current scopes is a Swaro Z3 with the BRX-H reticle.

Mustang, FWIW 10x lets me see 5.56 holes on paper at 100 yards, but this is why I take a spotting scope to the range with me. I don't think 4-16x50 is overkill if you plan to go out to 600+ yards or just generally want to shoot for tiny groups out at 200+. Also, that's the first PST model that gives you parallax adjustment. It wouldn't be a bad choice.

[DutchTerror]

I just purchased my second PA R-Grid 4-14x44 FFP. The first one is on my 18" .308 and this one will be going on my SPR build. The grid is like a poor man's Horus. Allows for precising ranging with sub-mil subtensions. It's not high end by any stretch of the imagination, but glass is good enough for me.

http://www.primaryarms.com/primary-a...14xffp-r-grid/

[mustangfreek]

I just purchased my second PA R-Grid 4-14x44 FFP. The first one is on my 18" .308 and this one will be going on my SPR build. The grid is like a poor man's Horus. Allows for precising ranging with sub-mil subtensions. It's not high end by any stretch of the imagination, but glass is good enough for me.

http://www.primaryarms.com/primary-a...14xffp-r-grid/

Thanks for the input, any pics of it or reticle, curious how it really looks..

I'm assuming since you bought another it must be holding up well on the 308?

[mustangfreek]

Mustang, FWIW 10x lets me see 5.56 holes on paper at 100 yards, but this is why I take a spotting scope to the range with me. I don't think 4-16x50 is overkill if you plan to go out to 600+ yards or just generally want to shoot for tiny groups out at 200+. Also, that's the first PST model that gives you parallax adjustment. It wouldn't be a bad choice.

Ya want atleast a 9-10 but more would be nice...curious you say first model that gives you parallax adjustment..I know this is a SFP reticle are you referring to the other-ffp or a different scope in general?

You say not a bad choice and no other comments..no love for this model ?

Anyone got a pic of it on a 16-18" ar curious how big/bulky it looks and weight it adds..

[cjd3]

While I understand the sentiment, I disagree. The HS line is made for hunters who, as a market segment, generally prefer clean reticles and capped turrets. Again, if you are shooting under 200 yards, you generally don't need to touch your turrets anyway (and that 2.5-10x44 is a great choice).

My thoughts exactly. While the even the bullet drop reticle seems nice for hunting, I doubt it's used often, or correctly when there is game in the glass. A simple duplex reticle at 2" high at 100 has been perfect for me. That scope is a great deal, and if I hadn't just bought new rings and a new scope with in the last 2 months, I'd be all over it. But I already got a screaming deal on a MeoPro scope, and I don't see that glass leaving that rifle.

[BoilerUp]

Ya want atleast a 9-10 but more would be nice...curious you say first model that gives you parallax adjustment..I know this is a SFP reticle are you referring to the other-ffp or a different scope in general?

You say not a bad choice and no other comments..no love for this model ?

Anyone got a pic of it on a 16-18" ar curious how big/bulky it looks and weight it adds..

I'm a big fan of the PST line. I meant that the lower power SFP models don't have parrallax adjustment. But for shooting up to a few hundred yards it really doesn't matter.

I've got a Viper HS LR 2.5-10x32 FFP on my SPR/Precision Recce build (18" barrel w/ KMR-A 15) and it's a great scope for that. I would have preferred the PST but I got the HS LR for a steal. What I quickly realized, though, is that FFP on 10X scope is kind of worthless. I've also grown to love hold over reticles like the XLR and have no need for exposed turrets with such a reticle.



Over the past few years I've come to the conclusion that quality of glass trumps all the features. As much as I like my Vipers, my eyes feel a lot better after sitting behind my Swaro. So, I'll say it again: figure out which features you really value, then find the best glass that gives you ONLY those features you value. Otherwise, you're putting money towards features you don't value instead of quality glass. This is my only concern with the PST line - the cost of the PST over the base Viper line is all for the features - the glass is the same. That's one nice thing about the Viper lineup, though, is they probably have a model that has the features you want.

You haven't stated your budget, but I'm sensing that you are looking to keep it under $500? The Leupold 3-9x40 Mark AR Mod 1 is worth looking at. I'm not a big fan of Leupold's reticles, but the glass is decent, I love the light weight, and they also have great CS.

Or you could go up to the $600 range and get the Leupold VX-R Patrol or the Trij Accupower 3-9X40 and sleep well at night knowing that no one at the range will think your scope looks funny on an AR.

[DutchTerror]

Thanks for the input, any pics of it or reticle, curious how it really looks..

I'm assuming since you bought another it must be holding up well on the 308?

It's been doing very well on the .308, though I probably only have around 180 rounds down the pipe so far. Here's about the best pic I had on hand of the reticle. House in the pic is a bit over 300 yards out and this is full magnification. Also not that I have the illumination on in this photo. With it off, the horseshoe would be black as well.

[Former11B]

I'm a big fan of the PST line. I meant that the lower power SFP models don't have parrallax adjustment. But for shooting up to a few hundred yards it really doesn't matter.

I've got a Viper HS LR 2.5-10x32 FFP on my SPR/Precision Recce build (18" barrel w/ KMR-A 15) and it's a great scope for that. I would have preferred the PST but I got the HS LR for a steal. What I quickly realized, though, is that FFP on 10X scope is kind of worthless. I've also grown to love hold over reticles like the XLR and have no need for exposed turrets with such a reticle.



Over the past few years I've come to the conclusion that quality of glass trumps all the features. As much as I like my Vipers, my eyes feel a lot better after sitting behind my Swaro. So, I'll say it again: figure out which features you really value, then find the best glass that gives you ONLY those features you value. Otherwise, you're putting money towards features you don't value instead of quality glass. This is my only concern with the PST line - the cost of the PST over the base Viper line is all for the features - the glass is the same. That's one nice thing about the Viper lineup, though, is they probably have a model that has the features you want.

You haven't stated your budget, but I'm sensing that you are looking to keep it under $500? The Leupold 3-9x40 Mark AR Mod 1 is worth looking at. I'm not a big fan of Leupold's reticles, but the glass is decent, I love the light weight, and they also have great CS.

Or you could go up to the $600 range and get the Leupold VX-R Patrol or the Trij Accupower 3-9X40 and sleep well at night knowing that no one at the range will think your scope looks funny on an AR.

I have the 2.5-10x32 FFP HS-LR also; for what I paid, it wasn't worth double the price for a PST W/ illuminated reticle and "tactical" turrets. And not all scopes in the HS line have the same BDC reticles.



This set up was shooting 2.5" groups at 300 yards a few weeks ago, and that was estimating holdover versus dialing the turrets


I do, however, love the glass in my Trijicon optics....super crisp. I think Im going to consider an Accupoint for my next glass.

[mustangfreek]

Thanks for the pics guys

Dutch - from the pic the glass looks Allright but again just a pic, clarity good , like when turned all the way up or? I like the reticle. I'm gonna look around on PA's site later and see what all they offer now & prices

Boiler- good info and didn't want to quote such a long post..lol..I like that 2-10x32 scope and have eyeballed it before, and again I like that reticle better then the normal bdc's. Also thought, was pretty sure the regular viper and the pst line had different glass and etched vs wire reticles? Maybe I'm wrong but I swore so, I remember looking thru a regular viper 6-24 and past 14-16 it got a bit cloudy and edges got choppy vs the pst I looked thru, but that was a little while back .

Humm..and I hear the buy what you can afford thing , but I can't just go out and buy whatever , always a compromise between cost and features I guess .

Nice looking rifle btw along with former11 , nice setup..

It seems silly also as that pst I linked earlier has more mag, illuminated, and yet is lower prices then that 2-10.. I guess the reticle and ffp is most of it but still..