View Poll Results: Do you think rounded/domed cam pins improve performance of your AR?

Voters
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  • Absolutely. The pin moves more freely, eliminating some friction and heat/wear

    1 9.09%
  • Meh. I've read about it, but the world isn't going to end if I don't get around to it.

    9 81.82%
  • WWTBLS?/I like chicken. Who else likes chicken?

    1 9.09%
  • I've written a long diatribe of my jejune cogitations for you to peruse. Prepare to be enlgihtened!

    0 0%
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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joelski View Post
    ^^^^

    This, plus the fact the majority of people who throw around the term "Mil-Spec", really mean to say "We took measurements and reverse-engineered the Colt piece, plus or minus." Thus, the origin of tolerance stacking.

    Another important facet of tolerance is end-play, or "slop". I have two really high quality, expensive components that barely fit together, let alone reciprocate properly because interpretation of dimensions and tolerances isn't the same as known, good measurements backed up by gazillions of pallets of rounds.

    Along with FN, I'd venture that LMT has also been trusted at some point to peek at the TDP.
    SDI was, as well, and actually built some contract guns. That said, they are no more.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by gatordev View Post
    To add on to Joelski's post... "Mil Spec" gets thrown around entirely too much by people who don't understand what that means. At work, we have what is essentially a Swiffer dust mop thingy, however it's built to a military specification. That doesn't mean it's chrome-lined or has had MPC testing, it just means that it was procured to meet a very specific design spec. In this case, it's to clean some VERY expensive mirrors.

    Mil Spec can mean anything. The actual specifications are part of some sort of data package and are a result of specific requirements brought to a contractor for them to design and build to. At the end of the day, the USG owns the package and can always take that information to another contractor and continue procure the product from another source (after lengthy contract negotiations, of course).
    Quote Originally Posted by Joelski View Post
    ^^^^

    This, plus the fact the majority of people who throw around the term "Mil-Spec", really mean to say "We took measurements and reverse-engineered the Colt piece, plus or minus." Thus, the origin of tolerance stacking.

    Another important facet of tolerance is end-play, or "slop". I have two really high quality, expensive components that barely fit together, let alone reciprocate properly because interpretation of dimensions and tolerances isn't the same as known, good measurements backed up by gazillions of pallets of rounds.

    Along with FN, I'd venture that LMT has also been trusted at some point to peek at the TDP.

    Now we are starting to get interesting! :)

    A "mil spec" component might not be the same thing as a 'mil spec package'.

    Just from my rudimentary gunsmithing knowledge it seems to me that parts that are made to function together tend to function better together.

    That is kind of what I was getting at earlier in stating that it seems to me that a lot of the industry people now are specializing in one part here or one part there which in and of itself has a lot of benefits because they can make new products out of new materials that can be superior.

    For example the new Nitride carriers with the bolts made out of something other than carpenter steel (like my Griffin one) which is made out of AISI 9310. I am far from an expert in metals and all that but what if that stuff turns out to be way the hell better than carpenter steel but costs 25% less to make? Wouldn't that be an improvement?

    That said having a firearm that is hand fitted can eliminate a whole lot of variables and eliminate a lot of slop. Even things like drilling port holes on barrels... a port hole that big with a barrel that long combined with this buffer weight and that spring.... how many of us have gone through that or some variation of it?

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by alamo5000 View Post

    For example the new Nitride carriers with the bolts made out of something other than carpenter steel (like my Griffin one) which is made out of AISI 9310. I am far from an expert in metals and all that but what if that stuff turns out to be way the hell better than carpenter steel but costs 25% less to make? Wouldn't that be an improvement?
    But none of that has anything to do with Mil Spec. Something may be made with better or worse materials, function better, and even be cheaper, but if it's not made to the specification set my the military (in this case), then it's not Mil Spec. Mil Spec doesn't specify better or worse, it just is what it is, a specification.

    That said, it is possible that something that improves function (or at the very least, is thought to improve function) but isn't in the spec can then be incorporated into the spec. This happens all the time across the DoD. A simple, gun-related example it the inclusion of the extractor ring and spring.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by gatordev View Post
    But none of that has anything to do with Mil Spec. Something may be made with better or worse materials, function better, and even be cheaper, but if it's not made to the specification set my the military (in this case), then it's not Mil Spec. Mil Spec doesn't specify better or worse, it just is what it is, a specification.

    That said, it is possible that something that improves function (or at the very least, is thought to improve function) but isn't in the spec can then be incorporated into the spec. This happens all the time across the DoD. A simple, gun-related example it the inclusion of the extractor ring and spring.
    Assuming the underlying metal of the cam pin is mil spec, is what is the evidence or experience of anyone here regarding the chrome/boron coating being superior? Also, BCM has a good reputation for BCG. Is their cam pin a solid choice? Prices vary so much. Normally that is an indication of quality but I really don't know in this case.

  5. #35
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    Every AR I own performs flawlessy. I do experiment, but I usually go back to where I came from, as far as metullergy and quality of parts. I haven't had a jam, mis fire, hang fire or any thing else in years, with the exception of some .300 Weatherby mag., in for everr. Nowday's AR parts are pretty much as good as they get. I've experiment with different cams also. Stock works fine.

    FT
    NRA Life Member
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by SINNER View Post
    One of the few areas on an AR that actually "break in" is the cam pin track in the upper. For that reason I go to all lengths to keep the cam pin I used initially in that weapon. On the few weapons I started off with different style cam pins I've noticed 0 change from a Milspec one. Except for a POF cam pin in a .308 that failed in less than 500 rounds.
    So you are saying keep the pin until it fails or degenerates badly, right? This idea of breaking in the cam pin track is new to me. Any additional information?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by HWS View Post
    So you are saying keep the pin until it fails or degenerates badly, right? This idea of breaking in the cam pin track is new to me. Any additional information?
    Just shoot it...lol

    He saying donít swap crap around and pay attention to what itís telling ya.. where the wear is happening..idk..thatís my take on it

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