Would someone educate me on lasers for the AR? (Short Version)

[FortTom]

Could someone please educate me on lasers - types-price ranges-suitability-recommended brands? That just about says it all right there. I want to use a compact, lightweight laser on my lightweight (Voodoo) rifle that would be suitable for Urban use's or possibly out to say 100 yards? Red? Green? Price range? Why?

I'd like a rail mount laser to place between (hopefully) my Aimpoint and front MBUS sight if possible.

I know very little about lasers for rifles, so don't beat me up too hard.

Thanks Ahead,

FT

[alamo5000]

I am watching because I don't know sh*t either about them.

[FortTom]

^^^^

[alamo5000]

^^^^

I didn't want you to feel lonely in the not knowing anything department I hang out in there pretty frequently but they still put up with me around here....LOL

[GOST]

Are you wanting to use an IR laser with night vision goggles or a laser light combo like a Surefire X400? Most of the argument I've heard against using a visible laser on a rifle is that it may give away your location, which may not be desirable for a home defense rifle. If you are using a red laser with a red dot will you be able to see the laser looking through the red dot? If your planning to invest in night vision goggles the Steiner DBAL-I² Class 1 IR laser has both visible and IR, and the Steiner Otal is IR only. Both of these are civilian legal. The Dbal is on sale for $693, and the Otal is on sale for $359 so you can save up for night vision goggles.

https://tnvc.com/shop/ldi-dbal-i2-class-1-ir-laser/

https://tnvc.com/shop/ldi-otal-class-1-ir-laser/

[Default.mp3]

IME, green is way better than red; this is from using an X400 and switching over to an X400U-GN. The green is far more visible, both during the day and night, and thus easier to use. The only downside is cost, and potentially inferior operating temperatures, depending on the particular green laser used; older green lasers used diodes that were quite temperature sensitive and power hungry, but some of the new designs match the red lasers in operating temperature and battery life.

Lasers are useful when shooting from unorthodox/compromised positions or with a pro mask, but beyond that, it doesn't offer anything that a red dot can't do better, at least from a shooting POV. It can be useful for signalling, but if you're not on a team that has proper procedures for such use, then it's not particularly relevant.

There are no duty-grade stand-alone visible lasers that I would consider adding to a long gun.

The Surefire X400U and Streamlight TLR-2 are pistol-oriented, and would most likely to be too tall for use on the 1200. They also suffer from a fairly large differential from the bore. Switchology can also be an issue here, depending on mounting location and your shooting style. The Steiner SBAL-PL does minimize the bore issue, but has even shittier switchology, as there is no tape switch for it.

The Steiner DBAL-I2 dual spectrum is probably the cheapest, duty-grade, rifle-oriented solution, but has an additional IR component that is pretty much useless if you're not going to be running NODs. If you were, you'd have to invest in some form of IR illumination, too, as IR pointers without an IR ilum is equivalent to running a gun with no WML. This holds true for all the vetted long-gun oriented visible laser units, that they are coupled with IR pointers and cost a large chunk of money.

The Crimson Trace LNQ-100G LINQ is interesting, but remains unproven, unavailable, and couples you with a 300 lumen light, which may be useful, or may be too weaksauce for your taste if you're used to an M600U.

I've seen people try to run the Crimson Trace CMR Rail Masters, but they invariably sucked, as they would fail to hold zero.

Haven't heard too much about the Crimson Trace MVF foregrip lasers, though the design itself looks like it would force you to a broomstick hold on the VFG, which is a fairly inferior shooting style.

[Slippers]

Steiner has a couple other variants of the DBAL that are more interesting. You can get the DBAL-I2 with infrared laser and infrared illuminator for the same price as the visible/IR laser versions. You lose the visible laser, of course, which makes zeroing a little harder (you have to do it with NV, basically).

For a couple hundred more there's the DBAL-A3, which has visible and IR lasers, plus the IR illuminator. Honestly, if you can afford NV, you can afford this one.

Once BE Meyers catches up with demand, they will also have a civilian legal version of the MAWL. Might be worth waiting for.

[FortTom]

Thanks, all. Very useful.
FT

[schambers]

IR is extremely useful when you're indoors and using NODs. Easy to just keep the laser on and using it to point-aim. IR is also useful for signaling and designation. YMMV depending on how trained up everybody is on the employment of IR.

I've never personally had much use for lasers outside of the IR spectrum so won't comment on using lasers in daylight. Optics and red dots work fine when the lights are on. Can't think of a situation off the top of my head when I used a laser in the daytime.

I would suggest looking into a Class III laser, if you have the ability to purchase one. More powerful laser, easier to see.

As far as types of lasers, I'm partial to the PEQ-15 but thats probably because I'm around them a lot. BE Myers is coming out with a new, compact IR/VIS laser system that may be worth checking out.

A big thing to think about if you working in a team, is how much training you have working with lasers. They are not completely intuitive and could cause confusion if people aren't conditioned to them (especially IR).



Also, I was told in the past that green lasers are generally easier to see up close but red wavelengths travel farther before degrading, so they are more visible at farther distances. This explanation was based off tech from the last generation of lasers, so things might have changed.... or it may just be untrue.

[Stickman]

What is the purpose of wanting a laser on your rifle? Assist you with targeting?

[FortTom]

What is the purpose of wanting a laser on your rifle? Assist you with targeting?

Stick, I wanted one rifle, that for me - fitment, weight, etc., that would be primarily used in an urban or CQC or similar situation. Sort of a "paranoid - the Clintonian Global Police and Confiscation Force" show up and I decide to go down swinging, or any other apocalyptical situation I might conjure up where a point and shoot dot (laser) would be ideal and night vision would not be required or wanted. More realistically I think It'd be great to take out to the farm and have a blast shooting up 4 or 5 hundred rounds, killing randomly placed cans and other targets hiding between piles stumps, in the barns, etc.

FT.

[Thompson]

They also sell a commercial version of the AN/PEQ-15: https://tnvc.com/shop/l3-insight-atp...ass1-ir-laser/

FT - do you have NODs already? If not, getting something to see IR can get pretty expensive.

If you really don't have a need to see things in the invisible spectrum, don't see a need to pick up an IR laser.

Unfortunately I don't have any experience with lasers in the visible spectrum. The decent bit I do know about is NOD's/IR's.

[Sak007]

There is a great documentary that is all about lasers

[FortTom]

Ha..ha.. Yeah that was a great old movie. I'd bet Val Kilmner would like to be that young again.
FT

[Sak007]

I Know squat about lasers accept that I want NV and a B.E. Meyers MAWL when and if they make a civilian version
http://www.bemeyers-mawl.us/