Would someone educate me on lasers for the AR? (Short Version)

[FortTom]

Wow, I knew that I didn't posses much knowledge when it came to lasers for firearms, but now I'm really finding out how much I really don't know. I imagined a unit that would put a red dot on something without having to look through an Aimpoint (so I can just point the gun and shoot without aiming). Maybe those only exists in movies?

Thanks,
FT

[GOST]

FT from experience of using others rifles with lasers finding the dot when pointing without looking through a rds was not that easy, that's why I don't have one. If I could afford night vision goggles and could see the IR laser path now that would be fun. But using others rifles with lasers is the only experience I have with them.

[Slippers]

Wow, I knew that I didn't posses much knowledge when it came to lasers for firearms, but now I'm really finding out how much I really don't know. I imagined a unit that would put a red dot on something without having to look through an Aimpoint (so I can just point the gun and shoot without aiming). Maybe those only exists in movies?

Thanks,
FT

You can use it that way but in broad daylight it will be very difficult to see the laser at anything beyond very close range.

With NV you can see the IR beam along the entire length, not just the dot at the end.

[UWone77]

If you want to play around with a visible laser as well as having the option to go with NV later, get a DBAL. They can be had on sale around $699, cheaper on the secondary market. Lots of lightly used DBALs out there (just be careful of fakes)

I'm in the market for NV, but I've been tossing around getting thermal instead.

Eventually I'll get a MAWL to round out the collection.

[gatordev]

UW, your collection won't be complete until you get an IZLID.

And look at that PEQ-2...that's just absurd. How did we live like this?

[Sak007]

If you want to play around with a visible laser as well as having the option to go with NV later, get a DBAL. They can be had on sale around $699, cheaper on the secondary market. Lots of lightly used DBALs out there (just be careful of fakes)

I'm in the market for NV, but I've been tossing around getting thermal instead.

Eventually I'll get a MAWL to round out the collection.

Going to TNVC when funds allow will be about the only reason I would ever go back into Ca . I was looking at the Stiener DBAL with the slaved green visible but then the MAWL

[alamo5000]

I'm in the market for NV, but I've been tossing around getting thermal instead.

I don't know much about lasers but from what I do know the NV or thermal route is way more appealing and appropriate for me.

One setup I've considered is a small NV pic mount monocular mounted up behind my T2. All I want is to ID targets from a dark position from 50-100 yards...

To me that's way better than a laser because both are passive.

Thermal also is appealing because you can be informed of the sheer presence of people or in my case some animals, namely pigs.

Even a little hand held thermal could be an option, but if I could have both on QD mounts where I could swap a little monocular as needed... That would be awesome.

[alamo5000]

Also in the case of a zombie apocalypse do you see yourself standing in the middle of main street guns blazing or would you go for cover and concealment? I think I would be more one to own the area using the latter method.

[UWone77]

UW, your collection won't be complete until you get an IZLID.

And look at that PEQ-2...that's just absurd. How did we live like this?

Like savages!!

I think Surefire Vampire heads will be sufficient for illumination.

[UWone77]

Going to TNVC when funds allow will be about the only reason I would ever go back into Ca . I was looking at the Stiener DBAL with the slaved green visible but then the MAWL

The biggest problem with the MAWL... even the civvy version with be north of 2k, likely $2500. I will assume the beam will be superior to the DBAL and ATPIAL-C, but you can get 3-4 DBALs and at least 2 ATPIAL-C's for the price of one MAWL. You can see that BE Meyers is marketing this 99% to the MIL/LE Agency side. I bet it's another year before you see the civvy version.

Also in the case of a zombie apocalypse do you see yourself standing in the middle of main street guns blazing or would you go for cover and concealment? I think I would be more one to own the area using the latter method.

I don't think of ridiculousness like this.

[gatordev]

All I want is to ID targets from a dark position from 50-100 yards...

To me that's way better than a laser because both are passive.

That's not really how NV (or thermal) works. Can you tell the difference between 4-legs and 2-legs? Absolutely. But you can't really ID friend or foe from 100y unless you know the specific person and their normal mannerisms (and sometimes their clothes, depending on what they may normally wear and how it is conveyed in near IR).

Also, I'm curious...why does actively sending IR energy out worry you vs. passive? Pigs can't see IR, unless they're also wearing NVDs.

Like savages!!

I think Surefire Vampire heads will be sufficient for illumination.

Oh, it's not an illuminator, my friend...



We have them on our GAUs and M240s.

[alamo5000]

Stick, I wanted one rifle, that for me - fitment, weight, etc., that would be primarily used in an urban or CQC or similar situation. Sort of a "paranoid - the Clintonian Global Police and Confiscation Force" show up and I decide to go down swinging, or any other apocalyptical situation I might conjure up where a point and shoot dot (laser) would be ideal and night vision would not be required or wanted. More realistically I think It'd be great to take out to the farm and have a blast shooting up 4 or 5 hundred rounds, killing randomly placed cans and other targets hiding between piles stumps, in the barns, etc.

FT.

I don't think of ridiculousness like this.

I was poking fun at Fort Tom a little bit

That's not really how NV (or thermal) works. Can you tell the difference between 4-legs and 2-legs? Absolutely. But you can't really ID friend or foe from 100y unless you know the specific person and their normal mannerisms (and sometimes their clothes, depending on what they may normally wear and how it is conveyed in near IR).

Telling the difference between a pig, cow, and a person would be sufficient But admittedly I am not an expert in, nor anywhere near to being able to buy NV or thermal and I've never used either except in some very limited situations. Just knowing if another human is present, or if that noise is an armadillo or a cow is a pretty big deal.

As far as the 'range' goes, in my mind 100 yards is the far edge of the limit I was referring to. More like half that would be more like it.

All that said I would like to learn more about the capabilities and range limitations of this stuff. I've for sure never tried to positively ID a human at night using NV but am I just bullshitting by thinking that I could tell if that person was armed or not or some other basic information? I don't really know the limitations of different setups and all that.

Also, I'm curious...why does actively sending IR energy out worry you vs. passive? Pigs can't see IR, unless they're also wearing NVDs.

I wouldn't quite use the term 'worry'...but if you must ask... I have seen the movie Patriot Games (with Harrison Ford) and when those terrorists went in to take over the house they all had NV as well.

In general though I haven't used a whole lot of lasers, especially high end stuff, but if you are gonna shoot the target it seems like you would have the same ID problem with or without a laser. Also I can say that I don't know the limitations or benefits so I couldn't say for sure if I like it or not. Just in general though I have never really been a big laser fan. That said I've been converted to other things that I didn't think I liked but that was only after I saw people who knew more about it doing it and what it all entails.

[alamo5000]

Also, I'm curious...why does actively sending IR energy out worry you vs. passive? Pigs can't see IR, unless they're also wearing NVDs.

Another thing (for me) that would qualify as a passing concern about any kind of laser in a rural area with dense vegetation would be 'obstruction' of the laser's path. If the pigs are say walking around in 2 feet of weeds and you can see and clearly identify them but how would obstructions such as tree branches, tall weeds, or maybe even just shooting from a blind be handled?

[alamo5000]

Here's an example:

Go to 1:10 in this video...



He has several obstructions... a fence post, wire, etc....but what about other kinds of natural obstructions that might be far away or up close to you or your target? You might be in a concealed position where you can get off a good safe shot but what happens if weeds or tree branches or whatever rustle in the wind in front of your laser?

I am asking more than anything because this is something that I've been curious about.

[alamo5000]

Since we are on the subject I got to youtube searching and I found this...

Interesting stuff for sure.