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  1. #1
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    Opinions on .243 calibers

    What is the general consensus on the .243 as a caliber/round? What are the pros, what are the cons... anything else worth mentioning?

    The main application would of course be target shooting at distances from 300 yards on to over 1000 yards or more...

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    Solid round with good market support.

    Burns up barrels shooting them hot, but then again, so does 6.5CM or any other "match" round.

    You can load some insanely fast projectiles in .243....I was loading some coyote killers (65gr VMax around 3500fps with Alliant Varmint powder)

    Here's my Ruger .243 Mannlicher (get your mind out of the gutter)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Former11B View Post
    Beautiful rifle !!

    Plus 1 on 11B's comments. I have a Remington 40XB-KS that I use for varmint hunting. Factory target that came with it was 3/8". I have handloads that match that. I load to factory spec - 70 grain V-Max that I moly coat - and really like the cartridge. Federal factory 70 grain Noslers chrono average is 3414 out of my 27" barrel - I keep the moly loads around 3400 and molys typically have a little less pressure than non-molys at the same loading. My Prairie Dog buddy liked his (I ordered a pair from the factory when I had an FFL) so much that he bought a Model 7 Mountain Rifle in .243 for deer hunting. I personally would not use it for anything larger than east coast whitetail, but that's just me. Others use it successfully on larger game. A very nice cartridge used within sensible limits. Can be extremely accurate; factory ammo and components available in several bullet weights.

    Can't really think of any cons. Pros - multiple powders are good with it (I use Varget), all components and tools readily available. Again, it is not a "do everything for everyone" cartridge, but I like it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Former11B View Post
    Solid round with good market support.

    Burns up barrels shooting them hot, but then again, so does 6.5CM or any other "match" round.

    You can load some insanely fast projectiles in .243....I was loading some coyote killers (65gr VMax around 3500fps with Alliant Varmint powder)

    Here's my Ruger .243 Mannlicher (get your mind out of the gutter)

    If I am shooting relatively heavy grain bullets (95 or 105 grain) the velocity is still 3000 fps or less. Do you think the barrel life will suffer (or will be extended some) if I am not shooting hot loads?

    Keep in mind that with the long range gun I have in mind I won't be shooting crazy amounts. Maybe a couple hundred rounds a session. I am not really looking at some crazy mag dumps. I am aiming for a round and a gun that will be able to get me past 1000 yards. The only hitch is I am not really looking to go 'bigger'...I think any of the 6 or 6.5's will get me there...

    Basically I am looking for a balance between cost to shoot and getting out there for a relatively reasonable cost.

    The other thing I am looking at before I leap is I want to know what to expect or what I am going to get in the way of barrel life. Barrels are a wear out part, but I have been seeing some insanely low round counts from various sources.

    I am also going to call my local gunsmith that I like and talk to him about the cost to rebarrel a bolt gun. If it's not horrendously expensive I might just buy a couple of barrels and go from there.

    I think it was Sinner that pointed out that Savage has some bolt guns that have a barrel nut...after reading up online there are several companies that make them like that. Black Hole Weaponry does as does a few others. Some of them even make them for a Remington 700 action as well as Savage models.

    Basically instead of buying a gun and then replacing everything on it, I am going to price out the basics for building a gun like I want it. A whole bunch of companies make long and short actions for a variety of platforms including Remington 700 clones on to all sorts of stuff.

    It's all kind of new turf to me so I any input is appreciated.

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    If you're looking to go past 1000 yards with precision, you're going to have to load hotter .243. You will need all the energy you can get at those ranges.

    Ever thought about .30-06? Or is that what you meant by not going "bigger".... in terms of caliber

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    If you are shooting competition, by all means, go for a 6-6.5mm cartridge. Otherwise you might consider that you can easily reach past 1000 with .308, which wears out barrels about 1/4 as fast and has a ton of ammo availability, along with reloading components. Yeah, .308 is not nearly as good at long distance, but learning to deal with this should make you a much better shooter when you do transition to 6-6.5mm.
    Will - Owner of Arisaka LLC - http://www.arisakadefense.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Former11B View Post
    If you're looking to go past 1000 yards with precision, you're going to have to load hotter .243. You will need all the energy you can get at those ranges.

    Ever thought about .30-06? Or is that what you meant by not going "bigger".... in terms of caliber
    I wouldn't be opposed to a .30-06 provided it will get to the ranges I am hoping for. When I say 'bigger' I am talking more like .338 or something like that. Basically I am looking for something that is reasonable cost to shoot. Things like brass that costs $1 per case or something 'exotic' kind of makes me hesitate. Even if you look at 6.5 CM, how many companies are even making that kind of brass? If I go with 6.5x47 ... same thing... or 6mm Creedmoor... On paper a .243 is on balance a good overall cartridge for my purposes but I could be totally wrong...

    The downside is of course barrel life...

    But look at this...



    1400 yards with a .243. Seems alright to me. The same guy shot the gun out way past that. I am pretty sure there are other cartridges that can get to those ranges...



    Quote Originally Posted by Slippers View Post
    If you are shooting competition, by all means, go for a 6-6.5mm cartridge. Otherwise you might consider that you can easily reach past 1000 with .308, which wears out barrels about 1/4 as fast and has a ton of ammo availability, along with reloading components. Yeah, .308 is not nearly as good at long distance, but learning to deal with this should make you a much better shooter when you do transition to 6-6.5mm.
    Oh you have no idea how much I have been considering a .308. I have personally shot to 1000 yards with one. I have been extremely tempted to build an AR10 but a bolt gun would work as well. So far I've held off on building a .308 based on you guys recommendations. Also I am not sure but I have heard loading heavy bullets (175+) to magazine length is going to be a challenge.

    What I am talking about has a total of ZERO tactical use. It is nothing but 100% fun. So on that front I guess I can look at it in a couple of different ways.

    I can sit there and bang on a 1000 yard plate all afternoon with the right .308 gun and reload. I can practice reading wind which is in my opinion a HUGE skill to have. On the other hand I can just go straight into a gun that I can grow into. I can still practice reading wind no matter what I choose to shoot, but at the same time I can have a gun that will give me other challenges. Even if I have to go through a couple of barrels it's still cheaper than building or buying an entirely second new gun.

    Up the road I might come into a lot of money but for now if I am going to drop 3 or 4 thousand bucks on a rifle, optic, etc etc...I am thinking I might should just choose carefully.

    I don't want to come off as being cheap, I just want to choose wisely. Whether or not a .308 will float my boat for just plain old target shooting out 1000 yards or beyond... I just kind of have to suck it up and go with something that I think will make me happy and will challenge me a lot. All of these cartridges have something good about them. I just have to pick something and go with it.

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    You also might want to consider the .260 Remington. I think that might hit the sweet spot for you. It's 6.5mm based on .308 brass. You give up a bit of the optimized case geometry of the 6.5CM in exchage for cheap brass. But I think first you have to decide if you want 6mm or 6.5mm. Personally, I like that the 6.5 gives you a bit of extra energy that could come in handy for hunting. But all I have currently in this ballpark is .308. I'm leaning towards a large frame AR in 7mm-08 in a lightweight build as a pretty versatile hunting rifle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoilerUp View Post
    You also might want to consider the .260 Remington. I think that might hit the sweet spot for you. It's 6.5mm based on .308 brass. You give up a bit of the optimized case geometry of the 6.5CM in exchage for cheap brass. But I think first you have to decide if you want 6mm or 6.5mm. Personally, I like that the 6.5 gives you a bit of extra energy that could come in handy for hunting. But all I have currently in this ballpark is .308. I'm leaning towards a large frame AR in 7mm-08 in a lightweight build as a pretty versatile hunting rifle.
    6mm or 6.5 is good for a bullet. I will definitely take a look at that round and see what I can come up with. Based on my quick google search that .260 could be an extremely nice option. Wow! We have a new leader here... based on my initial look that round is still supersonic (using a Berger 140 grain bullet) out to 1400 yards... that is awesome.

    From my searching around brass for the .260 isn't widely available (not like .223/5.56 brass) and what is available is kind of high... but from what I'm reading if I really had to do it I could neck down some .308 brass and make my own. I've never necked down a cartridge before so I don't know that process. (anyone have experience here?)

    But man... that cartridge looks very nice. Thanks for turning me onto that. I am going to read more about that.

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    Several reasons 260 rem is good:

    Easy to convert 308 brass.
    Lapua makes 260 rem brass.
    Less steep shoulder compared to 6.5 creedmoor is potentially better for autoloaders.
    More case capacity than 6.5 creedmoor - higher velocity

    Downside is factory match ammo isn't as common, costs more.
    Last edited by Slippers; 30 September 2016 at 21:33.
    Will - Owner of Arisaka LLC - http://www.arisakadefense.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slippers View Post
    Several reasons 260 rem is good:

    Easy to convert 308 brass.
    Lapua makes 260 rem brass.
    Less steep shoulder compared to 6.5 creedmoor is potentially better for autoloaders.
    More case capacity than 6.5 creedmoor - higher velocity

    Downside is factory match ammo isn't as common, costs more.
    So far this is an extremely good option for all the reasons you mentioned. I reload everything and especially any kind of gun of that nature won't be an exception. If I can get or make brass for it and reasonably purchase bullets then we're good. Once I make or get brass I could probably reload for 75 cents a round or less.

    I am going to have to figure out what case necking requires in the way of 1) pain in the ass and 2) equipment (dies etc)... I screw around with so much brass anyway that's not a problem. I could either watch some stupid remake of MacGyver on TV or I can do something else on the weeknights when nothing else is going on. Just do it an hour at a time and pretty soon you have a stash.

    Also when I shoot something of that nature I generally won't go through 500 rounds in one outing. One outing, I could do 100 rounds maybe. The idea is to work on skills not just make racket. It's a different kind of shooting. Who knows. I might do more than that. I don't know. But I do know that barreling a rifle is just gonna happen. It's part of life. Same thing as buying new tires for your car. I think the .260 has a fairly decent barrel life.

    If say I went shooting once every week or two and shot 100 rounds at a time....I could probably get a year or more out of the barrel. I probably won't be shooting that particular rifle that frequently (once a week). And then I have to think that I am shooting other stuff too (AR's, shotguns, or whatever) so in the grand scheme of things rebarreling might be a once a year (or more) kind of thing which isn't too bad. I am not going shooting when it's freezing cold, or the weather sucks, or if I have something else going on. It's fun not a job. $500 or $600 bucks over a year or two isn't too bad of a deal.

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    Disclaimer: I'm just regurgitating what I've read elsewhere as I've been considering my choices in this area, too. I don't reload/shoot any of the 6/6.5/7mm cartridges

    I've read a few reports of .260 Rem barrel life being around 3500 rounds before you start to notice degradation in accuracy, but can be as high as 5k if you aren't loading too hot. It's certainly an attractive round, especially for hand loaders. I think the reason 6.5CM overshadows it anymore is that you can get reasonably prices factory match ammo that is very accurate. I think I've read before that if you handload, there is a slight advantage to the .260 and if you don't then the advantage goes to the 6.5CM. Personally, I keep eyeballing the Tikka T3 Compact Tactical in .260 Rem, but I also keep coming back to the 7mm-08 as a fantastic versatile round for both long range shooting and hunting up to Elk sized game.

    But I also have this irrational bias against brass that is sized for something different than the headstamp (e.g., 300 BLK brass stamped .223, or .243/.260/7-08 brass stamped .308)

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoilerUp View Post
    Disclaimer: I'm just regurgitating what I've read elsewhere as I've been considering my choices in this area, too. I don't reload/shoot any of the 6/6.5/7mm cartridges

    I've read a few reports of .260 Rem barrel life being around 3500 rounds before you start to notice degradation in accuracy, but can be as high as 5k if you aren't loading too hot. It's certainly an attractive round, especially for hand loaders. I think the reason 6.5CM overshadows it anymore is that you can get reasonably prices factory match ammo that is very accurate. I think I've read before that if you handload, there is a slight advantage to the .260 and if you don't then the advantage goes to the 6.5CM. Personally, I keep eyeballing the Tikka T3 Compact Tactical in .260 Rem, but I also keep coming back to the 7mm-08 as a fantastic versatile round for both long range shooting and hunting up to Elk sized game.

    But I also have this irrational bias against brass that is sized for something different than the headstamp (e.g., 300 BLK brass stamped .223, or .243/.260/7-08 brass stamped .308)
    That is TOTALLY irrational! I think the first time you pull the trigger on a 1000 yard target and hear the gong go off your bias will be eliminated

    I spent all night looking around at this caliber (until I fell asleep) and saw a few rifles that could do it. I still have some window shopping to do but I also heard that Savage magazines are a bit longer allowing you to load and feed heavies that are loaded long (reloading stuff). This is actually a big deal because if I can reload tipped bullets with heavy grain bullets ... well that is my goal one way or another to have that kind of round. I haven't researched out the validity of that (any help appreciated)...

    That's one problem with the .308... if I load the heavy tipped matchkings, bergers, or the new Hornady ELD Match bullets it might cause a length problem. I am not sure if this is reality or not for this caliber (260).

    http://www.hornady.com/store/6.5mm-....-GR-ELD-Match/

    But daaaaamn. Look at that BC... .620 is insane. That is the best I've found so far. There are several bullets of this nature out there but all of them might have length issues. Keep in mind I am going to load for accuracy not just fitting it into the mag. I want to seat just off the lands etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoilerUp View Post
    I've read a few reports of .260 Rem barrel life being around 3500 rounds before you start to notice degradation in accuracy, but can be as high as 5k if you aren't loading too hot. It's certainly an attractive round, especially for hand loaders.
    I have read the same thing about barrel life. If that's true that's one more reason to give it a good consideration. Getting an extra 1000 rounds or more out of the barrel is a very nice thing to have. I am going to design or pick one out that can handle heavy rounds (140ish) grains and then go from there. According to Berger's website a 1:8 twist is optimal for that.

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    The Tikka T-3 Sporter looks very interesting for my use. 24" threaded barrel...





    For maybe $1400 bucks seems like a pretty good deal to get me in the game.

    A couple of questions though... for that rail thing on the bottom there how would you add a 3 slot pic rail so I can use my Atlas bipod?

    Also any ideas about a 20 or so MOA base that would fit on there? I could either go one of a few ways...the gun has a dovetail on top of the reciever as well as screws to add a pic rail on top of the reciever...(you can choose whatever flavor works for you.

    1)hunt for a dovetail base that is 20 MOA with a pic rail on top...
    2) add a standard rail and then get 20 MOA mount to go on it
    3) see if there is anything such as a 20 MOA ring set up...

    I am not sure if anyone knows the pros and cons of any of those or if anything is superior or inferior out of those choices... (looking at you Slippers)

    Also I am still looking at or rather trying to figure out if the OAL on a 140ish grain bullet (like in the above post) would be longer than magazine length....

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