Extractors

[Aragorn]

Extractors are not something I generally worry about. Maybe I'm charmed, but I've never broken one (knock on wood). I did have a moment of confusion last night though. I've been debating grabbing a spare or two 'just in case' and was specifically eyeballing Umbrella's 4340 version. I like that they list the material it's made from, the processes used, and that its all good. I got thrown for a loop though when I went hunting to see what kinda of extractor is in my Relia-bolts (had one, and recently just purchased a Sharp's Balanced BCG) and found that it's C-158.

I have no idea which is better/stronger... I can assume 4340>4140 per Umbrella's site, but where does C-158 fall in as an extractor material? I mean I know it's great for a bolt and all.

All of you who have broken extractors, any idea what they were made out of?

As a laterally related aside, all mine get 'upgraded' with springs from either BCM or Springco.

[alamo5000]

When I get home I will do some googling to confirm but I think the C158 is more of the "mil spec" carpenter steel. That said I see many manufacturers turning to newer metals. My Griffin BCG for example is not "carpenter steel".

Neither is my CMT one.

If you ask purists they will bitch and complain about companies "cutting corners" in their eyes...but personally I think it's not like that at all. From what I read the newer materials exceed "mil spec" but it's a hard sell to many.

If you read up on the internet you're going to see a lot of flame wars on the subject of what metal is used.

Personally I think you won't have a problem either way.

[alamo5000]

Basically if NASA came out with a metal that weighs 1/2 the weight of aluminum, could dissipate heat to 12,000 degrees and was 3 times more abrasion resistant than AR500 people would bitch because it wasn't mil spec.

[SINNER]

C158 is Carpenter Steel's part number for a proprietary steel only they make. It's about 7% weaker than 9310 in its untreated form. With proper heat treating it can exceed 9310. A C158 extractor would be about 30% weaker than 4340 IIRC.

[UWone77]

Basically if NASA came out with a metal that weighs 1/2 the weight of aluminum, could dissipate heat to 12,000 degrees and was 3 times more abrasion resistant than AR500 people would bitch because it wasn't mil spec.

This is just silly.

[SINNER]

He found that on the silly Google page.

[alamo5000]

This is just silly.

I was saying that's what it sounds like reading what some of those people say when they argue about some of this stuff... nothing more than that...

It is silly... that was intentional. I was being ridiculous on purpose.

[UWone77]

I've never broken a C158 bolt, but I have broken numerous 9310 bolts. I find that 9310's were probably not heat treated correctly, as they usually broke within 500 rounds but the C158's were because... you guessed it, milspec.

I have no doubt that we can go beyond milspec, such as KAC E3 Bolts, but it's a minimum standard people still fail to reach.

[JGifford]

I like qpq treated extractors. They seem to keep their crispness longer when shooting steel or high round counts of brass. I've literally never seen an extractor break that wasn't in a kb.

[Aragorn]

Boom. Exactly the info I needed.

Thanks!

[Joelski]

This is just silly.

TOS.

[Joelski]

You're right; you just don't see as much of that here as other places around the web *Buy a COLT!*

It's like I have a several knives made of S30V stainless, and I also have a custom made of S110V. Some people think the steel in that custom is actually 70 somethings of order better than the steel in the standard knives.

[JGifford]

You're right; you just don't see as much of that here as other places around the web *Buy a COLT!*

It's like I have a several knives made of S30V stainless, and I also have a custom made of S110V. Some people think the steel in that custom is actually 70 somethings of order better than the steel in the standard knives.

Well, honestly, S30V is only as good as its temper, etc. I know absolutely dick about actually working metal, and I promise if you gave me the purest S30V with all the right tools, I'd hand you the crappiest knife you've owned, lol

I have bought BCG's other than Colt, but I had to upgrade them to get reliable function the way I wanted, to Colt specs. I now automatically trash any non-Colt ejector springs. I've seen ejector springs from BCM, Azimuth, Daniel Defense, and they are all DIFFERENT. Sure, they fit in the tunnel, but the Colt fits best, and produces the most reliable and crisp ejection.

Is this a big issue for most? No. but when you shoot high round counts suppressed, it's nice to EJECT casings instead of watching them dribble out of the gun or be hit by the BCG as it returns to battery because your ejection spring is weak. In the case of the BCM BCG, it resulted in stove-pipes after 4K rounds (*This was sent to a friend of mine to fix, I did not personally witness it, but know the parties involved.)

For extractor springs, Ken's "Green" spring gets the nod from me.

That's kindof my formula for making a gun RUN.

Sprinco action spring (Green if rifle/A5, Blue if carbine), Colt ejector spring, Ken Elmoore "Green" extractor spring. I then select the heaviest buffer that I get reliable lock-back with a DIRTY weapon using PMC .223 Bronze ammo with, and that also feeds the next round when initially fired with a full 30 round USGI magazine in the magwell, and 1 in the chamber, using same ammo. If I am on a budget (time or ammo), chemically de-greasing the BCG and upper with gun-scrubber serves the same as getting the weapon filthy. Fire a few fouling shots to make it gritty, and test. Since I use hotter ammo than .223 PMC Bronze for social occasions, this has worked just fine with plenty of margin of error. Build in any MORE margin of error, and you end up under-buffered/sprung.

Unless something is absolutely jacked up with your weapon in a physical sense, this puts things right.

I guess my point in all of this is that no, names don't mean a damn thing, but when you have a bunch of people copying an object, variance is bound to exist, and it's up to the end user to find the flavor that works. For me, Colt ejector springs WORK. So do their copper-wash extractor springs, but they are not as corrosion proof as the "Green". I spend a lot of time obsessing over tiny little details like this, and it's why I can run carbine courses without more than an initial application of MPRO7 LPX, shooting nearly 2000 rounds of Wolf, suppressed, and have a perfectly functioning weapon and a great time with no issues.

*Yes, I have even run the HK braided ejector spring in T&E under 240fps film. It's a really really sexy spring! But the Colt works just as well to better, IME

[alamo5000]

TOS.

What does TOS mean?

Honestly I have no clue.

[radar707]

What does TOS mean?

Honestly I have no clue.

usually means ar15.com The Other Site