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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoilerUp View Post
    valid points on both sides. I think pointing to several European countries as examples of generally anti-gun societies that are OK with, or even require, suppressors is a useful fact for debate since you need to bring in perspectives that align to how the opponent thinks, but we should be careful in how we choose our words.
    ^^^ THIS.

  2. #17
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    You could pay off the debt by auctioning human tags.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoilerUp View Post
    valid points on both sides. I think pointing to several European countries as examples of generally anti-gun societies that are OK with, or even require, suppressors is a useful fact for debate since you need to bring in perspectives that align to how the opponent thinks, but we should be careful in how we choose our words.
    Yes that's my point. Use Europe as an example as a modern group who are okay with with suppressors. That is an appeal to today's progressives as long as the point is limited to that.

    But Europe is neither ahead nor behind the USA. They are what they are based on the philosophies they value. Those philosophies can be true or false or a mix. But it has nothing to do with "progress." Europe simply isn't an example of greater advancement or enlightenment. They can be progress-oriented fancy pants all day and live life in denial. Europe lives a lot in denial.

    To base an argument on the assumption that whatever is "up to date" or "trendy" or "okay with the majority" or "into the 21st century" is just the rhetoric of moral relativism to condescend to those who disagree. Rights and relativism are not compatible. Progressivism is rule by mob expecting the universe to fix everything as the mob goes. Whatever is "next" is assumed to be right. "Make America Great Again" sounds to them like going "backwards" rather than fixing a timeless foundation. Generally speaking, progressives think linearly; conservatives structurally. Progressives live in the future: conservatives are more timeless (generally). Examples abound.

  4. #19
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    I get you and am with you, fledge

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