What's the Point?

[hg8057]

What's the point of buying all of the equipment needed to mill 80% receivers if (as I understand) no one but you can own the ones that are produced? Perhaps I'm missing something here.

[alamo5000]

Most people who are milling recievers already own all the stuff need to do it, or at least 95% of it.

Milling an 80% reciever isn't for everyone. Some people like to work with their hands and are very good at it. Other people don't own the stuff or have the talent or desire to do it. Some people are going to try just one. Other people might make 10 of them. If you're going to have just one AR yeah, you probably will be better off just buying one already made. If you want a bunch of them it's something else.

And since when is permanently owning a gun or ten of them or 50 of them a bad thing? SBR a lower and it's yours for life too. Same with owning a suppressor. And God only knows I need about 5 or 6 or more of those.

I pay people to change the oil in my car, but in a pinch it's kind of nice to know how to do it myself should the need arise.

[hg8057]

...Some people are going to try just one. Other people might make 10 of them. If you're going to have just one AR yeah, you probably will be better off just buying one already made...

I enjoy working with my hands as well. I've been bitten by the AR build bug and have built a few. I was looking into getting started in milling 80% lowers and helping/doing it for friends and found out how fussy the authorities can be about milling for others, selling to others, etc.

[alamo5000]

I enjoy working with my hands as well. I've been bitten by the AR build bug and have built a few. I was looking into getting started in milling 80% lowers and helping/doing it for friends and found out how fussy the authorities can be about milling for others, selling to others, etc.

Don't mill for friends. Not wise.

If you are good with your hands and have the tools getting a bunch of 80% lowers and a jig is no big deal. About the 3rd one you'll probably get into your rhythm. Building an AR and milling a lower out are two totally different things.

I personally enjoy the hell out of building nice ARs (although I don't have the cash to do it with reckless abandon). I like conceptualizing which optic goes with which barrel length and stock, with which caliber and so on and so forth. I like the idea of having thoughtful guns as to their entire design and purpose of each component and how all those things function together. Some you want red dots and some you want variable optics. Some you want single stage triggers others two stage are better. To me putting together a well thought out concept using quality parts turns me on. The possibilities are endless.

But I still probably will never mill my own recievers, not unless I just need to. If you're going to mill them out just know they are for your own use.

[LHTwist]

There was a surge over the past 8 years to build with 80% in order to circumvent unlawful record retention by ATF & FBI. Even though information provided through NICS is supposed to be discarded immediately at the conclusion of the transaction, there has been evidence suggesting that may not have always been the case.

It's not terribly difficult to finish one that functions, especially if you're not concerned about aesthetic values. The investment in equipment plays a significant role there but I know some people who have completed the job with nothing more than a drill press.

[Pyzik]

I did one, just to say I have done it. Having said that, I don't plan on going out of my way to do anymore. I was lucky enough to borrow (rent for $40) a jig and router since I didn't own one to complete it. Total cost for me was the price of the jig & router rental.

If you have to purchase the tools to get one done I suggest you do at least a few. I think it took me about 4 hours total to do the first one and I would image you get faster the more you do it.

For ME, it's not worth it to do more. I'll just buy them. But I am glad I did it, just to say I have.

[JoshAston]

What's the point of buying all of the equipment needed to mill 80% receivers if (as I understand) no one but you can own the ones that are produced? Perhaps I'm missing something here.

That's a myth. You can sell the ones you made just like any other firearm. You just can't build with the intent to sell, just like you can't buy firearms with the intent to sell.

In MD, it's easier to build than buy. If I buy a stripped lower here I have to have it registered with Maryland State Police, pay the fee to have it registered, submit a 77R, and wait 7 days to pick it up. That's on top of the price of stripped lowers being double to triple what they are in the rest of the country. Those Andersons that you're paying $39 for are going for $120 here. As for getting them shipped in, most dealers here charge around $75 per firearm for transfers of restricted firearms. MSP has ruled that AR lowers, even though you're not allowed to build them into a restricted firearm, are by themselves a restricted firearm. If they weren't, we wouldn't have to deal with all of this, they'd be cash and carry, just like an AR10, an HBAR AR15, a piston AR15, an AR15 in any caliber but 5.56, etc. It makes no sense, but if I want to get stripped lowers here it's easier and cheaper to get 80% lowers and finish them out.

Other than that, sense of accomplishment and pride in doing something yourself.

[SINNER]

That's a myth. You can sell the ones you made just like any other firearm. You just can't build with the intent to sell, just like you can't buy firearms with the intent to sell.

In MD, it's easier to build than buy. If I buy a stripped lower here I have to have it registered with Maryland State Police, pay the fee to have it registered, submit a 77R, and wait 7 days to pick it up. That's on top of the price of stripped lowers being double to triple what they are in the rest of the country. Those Andersons that you're paying $39 for are going for $120 here. As for getting them shipped in, most dealers here charge around $75 per firearm for transfers of restricted firearms. MSP has ruled that AR lowers, even though you're not allowed to build them into a restricted firearm, are by themselves a restricted firearm. If they weren't, we wouldn't have to deal with all of this, they'd be cash and carry, just like an AR10, an HBAR AR15, a piston AR15, an AR15 in any caliber but 5.56, etc. It makes no sense, but if I want to get stripped lowers here it's easier and cheaper to get 80% lowers and finish them out.

Other than that, sense of accomplishment and pride in doing something yourself.

100% accurate. I'm sitting on a ton of stripped lowers that are Md pre ban so whenever I'm building something that falls under a non restricted weapon I use a 80%. For less than $80 I can have a nice quality billet lower. About $120 if you shop for the .308's.

[hg8057]

Don't mill for friends. Not wise.

I learned this during my research. I went into it thinking that they would be largely unregulated. Boy, was I wrong. My original plans were to mill/assemble for friends (for a small fee). That's not gonna happen.

[hg8057]

Thanks for all the good advice folks. With the startup cost regarding the equipment and the potential pitfalls legally, I don't think milling is for me. It looks as if it's a great option for some and if my situation changes, I may revisit the idea.

[JoshAston]

A lot of the retro guys do it as well so that they can have accurate markings engraved on their builds.

[Former11B]

In SC, you can mill your own lower with no serial, but if you ever decide to sell it, it MUST be serialized even if the sale isn't recorded at an FFL.

[Joelski]

I just don't get the 80% AR thing. If I had some milling and fabricating skills, I'd be making my own M107 clone.

Block of billet SS, go big. I would go apeshit at Grizzly if I won the lotto! There would be a badass CNC mill and a matching lathe in my shop just doing hobby guitar and firearm creation.

[FortTom]

Because I can. Because it's fun. Having said that, I wouldn't do multiples, the "newness" factor wanes. DO NOT mill them for other people or you can go to jail. I happen to have a mill and lathe available to me to use, although I don't own them. If I had to rent the gear and tooling, I probably wouldn't bother. Do not forget to check your state laws before selling a non-serialized firearm, in addition to Federal laws. If a person see's a money making opportunity, buying 80% lowers to circumvent state and federal laws (not that anyone here has suggested that), use your profits from your first sale to retain a lawyer.

Basically, it's just a legal loophole that I figured the Obama administration would close, because when you mill the lower, you manufacture the weapon (without all of the hoopla required to do so). So, if you want to do so, I would do it now, before another election cycle, unless you currently live in one of the anti-everything states.

Most of the people that I know have done it was for the challenge, because they could, and because it's fun. Not to save money, you probably won't.

FT

[LHTwist]

There are lots of advantages guys! You won't save any money on the first one because the tooling eats that. You will save on every subsequent one though; 1) the 80% receivers cost less than pre-finished, 2) no FFL transfer fee's. Less hassle too since they ship directly to your doorstep. Lastly, there's absolutely no trail left for the feds to follow.

That last point is not a big issue if you've kept your nose clean but how many times in the last five years have you heard the word "confiscation" used under one guise or another? 80% lowers are just one more way of ensuring your ability to stay ready. And they're fun to finish!

The GCA-68 permits unlicensed individuals to make firearms for personal use, but not for sale or distribution. However, a firearm explicitly made for personal use can later be sold or transferred in the same way that a factory-made firearm, of the same class, can be sold or transferred. All that's technically needed is a serial number on the receiver. Of course, you wouldn't want to make a habit of this without a mfg's license, and that's another ball of wax.