What's the deal with Surefire?

[alamo5000]

You brought up Navy SEALs bud. Granted, a large number of the cc community stick their gun in a glovebox and their head in the sand, but a small number actually seek training that works. For those people, the fact that they don’t have a badge or a trident doesn’t mean they can’t elevate their cognitive and psychomotor capability. I don’t pretend to know very much, but I gave you some things to think about and you poo-poo’d it with the oh-so-tired SEAL argument. If you don’t want to hear my opinion, the ignore button is waiting. Peace.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

I wasn't intending to be a smartass towards you but I'm pretty sure now it came across that way. Sorry about that. It wasn't intended to be a personal swipe or a poke at anyone. I was actually asking you to elaborate and share 'why' because I am very interested in learning.

My question/point 'about Seals' wasn't intended 'specifically' in that way that I think it was taken. It could have applied to any hundreds of groups or situations whether it be certain situations for cops or the military or a long list of other things. I personally have never been any of those and I don't pretend to be.

All I was trying to say was that as I tried to think through things is that in a situation like I tried to describe that a negligent light discharge would be a massive fail and could easily get someone killed. If the bad guys didn't do it [from what stories I've heard] the team mates might do it to whoever messed up. That's how it's always been presented to me.

Anyway it's all in the weeds so (trying to re-focus)... my observation about the controls of the XSC is what matters. With the Surefire 300 series if you tap the control it's momentary only. You have to flip the lever down and push it into place for constant on. It seems (to me) that constant on is a secondary type of operation with that light. Secondary meaning it requires a slight bit more effort to get there.

With the XSC a quick momentary tap is straight to constant on. It's somewhat opposite to the 300 series. With the XSC if you push the lever and hold it for a bit longer it's momentary but activating the constant on feature seems to me to be a lot easier (and faster). Two lights, same company, but seemingly different philosophies about operation.

In my first impressions this seemed to be a very interesting point of discussion.

[alamo5000]

Instead of starting a new thread I thought I would give an update on the XSC light on my 365XL. I have been using the XSC since May of 2021, so just over a year and a half as of this post.

The light itself is fine. I have had exactly zero problems with it. That said I rarely shoot at night but from time to time I have gone out in the back yard at night (I live way out in the country) and practiced using the light itself, typically without shooting much as I don't want to alarm the neighborhood. If they hear gunshots at night it's pretty likely they will call the cops as it's out of the ordinary. For actually shooting at night I will need to find alternate locations to do that.

Flash forward, and I bought a different pistol (a Sig P322). On a whim I bought an on sale TLR-7A for that pistol. With a suppressor I can shoot that pistol all night long and no one would care. What I immediately noticed about the light itself though was the buttons on the back were in my opinion way nicer that the Surefire XSC. The Surefire buttons are mushy and I feel like I have to hunt for them a little bit. The Streamlight however is very tactile and has more 'meat' to it.

When I was originally looking for the XSC the Streamlight TLR-7 Sub had not been released yet and it had no ETA yet (back then). Also my only real experience with lights previously has been Surefire (of which I now own four different lights). Just my habits, but I was (and in ways still am) partial to Surefire so they started out with more points just because they are Surefire. None the less my curiosity had been piqued when I started using the Streamlight on my P322, so on a whim I bought a Streamlight TLR-7 Sub. Sig uses some proprietary rail so this is the model that can fit on my carry gun.

After doing a head to head comparison I will most likely end up switching to the Streamlight for my EDC on my 365XL. The decision has nothing to do with battery type or life, or the amount of lumens, or even aesthetics. It has everything to do with pure function. To me the Streamlight seems substantially more ergonomic. The gun I carry is small as is, but in my opinion there is such a thing as 'too small'. Surefire made a super sleek light that is smaller and lighter, but it also is not as ergonomic. With the Streamlight the light feels like it gives me a natural place to put my thumb that is just perfect for light activation as well. I don't feel like I am needing to hunt or whatever for the micro size ledge on the Surefire. On top of that I really like the tactile feel of the Streamlight's buttons a lot better than the ones on the XSC.

Yes the Streamlight is slightly bigger, but not annoyingly so, but that small bit of extra size seems to give me a lot better light control. With the Streamlight with my hands in their natural shooting position I can control the Streamlight better without compromising my grip. With the XSC I can obviously activate the light, but it's a noticeable difference between the two, at least for me.

As of right now I will still use the XSC, but as of this moment I plan to eventually switch over to the Streamlight PRIMARILY based on the ergonomics of it.

Don't get me wrong, there are other differences, but for my purposes either light has more than enough output, and I already have extra batteries and so forth. In the video below it goes over a lot more of the technical data in a hands on test comparing the two. Some of the other features seem attractive to me as well (but in the end not really a game changer for my use). The ergonomics though are enough to warrant a the switch.

[BoilerUp]

Interesting. Thanks for sharing. I'm happy with the TLR-7A on my 19. Great value.

[alamo5000]

Interesting. Thanks for sharing. I'm happy with the TLR-7A on my 19. Great value.

I never used any other brands until recently, but that shows how little I know. My habits are generally to let others do the vetting and then just stick with what I know. So while yes I like my Surefires I learned a lesson that almost no one is the only game in town. I was pleasantly surprised by all means.

I'm sure there are other things that make Surefire a staple. Their warranty and guarantees are excellent. Any time I ever needed anything (which hasn't been very often) it always only took a single email and cost nothing to correct. Not even a question one has been asked. They just make it right.

For this specific light though I think it would be worth it to do a re-design of the activation buttons. To me it's more than just the 'clicky' nature vs the mushy feel.

With the Surefire if I activate it with my support hand thumb I have two options. If I use the curved textured area of the switch I have to put my thumb down like I am playing thumb war with somebody. If I try to use the ledge just above that, that ledge is slightly better, but it's tiny and I have to slightly move my hand to get activation.

With the Streamlight, the tactile feel of the button aside, where things are located and the shape of the button itself is in a much more natural place and there is more meat to it. In a natural shooting grip your activation thumb just goes to the right spot.

With the XSC if I am using that top ledge I feel like I am using the side of my thumb to sort of rake the switch, whereas with the Streamlight I have a purchase right in the center of my thumb right on the switch without compromising my grip. If I use a similar center of the tip of my thumb on the XSC that little ledge is quite small and hence it requires a little bit of hunting sometimes, or I have to do the thumb war position.

Aside from that I bought the Streamlight shipped to the door for like $130 bucks. The Surefire with one extra battery right now will cost around $360.

[Joelski]

As I've said before, aside from the cool guy factor, SF just doesn't offer enough over the Streamlight to make it worth almost 3x as much. I'm not married to anything but reliability, so thanks for the info. I will keep that under my hat for future purchases.