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Thread: Troubleshooting

  1. #1
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    Troubleshooting

    I am building my 6 ARC, or rather I put it all together already. Today I fired the first shots to get it on paper.

    It took me way more than normal to get it zeroed. I will fine tune it later.

    I am using a Badger Ordnance 22MOA riser and a 15 MOA mount. The scope has an advertised elevation of 31 MIL but actual is over 32.

    Even with the extra elevation in my riser and mount I only have a total of just over 11 mils of upward travel after I got it zeroed at 100 yards. That basically means if I were to just mount it straight on with no added elevation my turret would be maxed out just to zero. From the mechanical center of the optic that would be roughly 16 mils high at 100 yards.

    My first plan is to remove the optic and put it on another gun. If it's repeating the same behavior then it's 100% the optic however I am not ruling out that my new upper might be the culprit. I'm definitely not ruling out me screwing something up.

    Short of breaking everything down and starting over what are some good things to check before going down that road?

    If I need to break it apart and start over it's not the end of the world but as I work on it I would like some ideas.

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    What specific scope ?

    I ask because , does it have a zero stop feature ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bfoosh006 View Post
    What specific scope ?

    I ask because , does it have a zero stop feature ?
    It is the Vortex Strike Eagle 5-25. It does have a zero stop but I have not put it in there yet.

    I don't want to jump to conclusions until I can verify. I just put the upper together a few days ago so I am not ruling out something that I did in that process.

    Hopefully tomorrow I will be able to try different things to prove it one way or another.

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    Well that was pretty quick. Today I broke the upper down and inspected everything. I was intending to do that anyway at some point. I put the scope back on and confirmed zero.

    After that I took the scope off of my Kidd 10/22 and put the suspect scope on it. With the Kidd I have a 20 MOA base and I am using a 15 MOA mount for a total of 35 MOA added elevation. That is in between 10-11 mils.

    On the Kidd I had roughly 11 MILS of upward elevation after a 50 yard zero. If I were to put that optic on a straight mount without added elevation I would have pretty much zero internal elevation.

    Definitely not the rifle. 100% scope. Now let's see how long it takes Vortex to get me back to square.

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    If this happened to me, I'd first suspect that I put the riser on backwards. Maybe mount that scope with 0 MOA rings to confirm? But, yeah, I could see the scope being the likely issue but am confident Vortex will take care of you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoilerUp View Post
    If this happened to me, I'd first suspect that I put the riser on backwards. Maybe mount that scope with 0 MOA rings to confirm? But, yeah, I could see the scope being the likely issue but am confident Vortex will take care of you.
    I thought the same thing too but I confirmed and reconfirmed then ditched the riser and put it on another rifle...I was questioning everything. None the less it is what it is.

    I bought the optic less than a month ago so I am just going to return it and buy another, hopefully with better results.

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    Vortex man...

    I almost jumped in early to make a joke that it was the optic just because it was a vortex, then decided not to be snide.

    But there you go, apparently Vortex IS the joke.
    -One Nation, Under God

    -"The bad news is time flies. The good news is you're the pilot." ~ Michael Althsuler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aragorn View Post
    Vortex man...

    I almost jumped in early to make a joke that it was the optic just because it was a vortex, then decided not to be snide.

    But there you go, apparently Vortex IS the joke.
    I have about 3 or 4 Vortex but I have never had any issue until now. Some f*ckwit in a Chinese factory was screwing off on the job.

    Anyway that specific optic is already boxed up and I am returning it rather than trying to get warranty work on it. I don't know but I might buy a second copy because the overall features of it are pretty good for what I am doing. If I can find something similar I will definitely take a look. The overall construction and all that jive seemed ok for the price point.

    We will see what I can find once I get my money back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aragorn View Post
    Vortex man...

    I almost jumped in early to make a joke that it was the optic just because it was a vortex, then decided not to be snide.

    But there you go, apparently Vortex IS the joke.
    I am about to join you there. This is getting to be stupid. That said Vortex is supposedly making good so I am being patient (for now).

    I sent the first optic back to the retailer and got a refund. I bought a second copy of the optic from a completely different seller thinking it was a one off.

    Got the second optic and I had about 4 mils of upward adjustment and 28 mils down into the dirt. Again. Slight improvement over the first copy but still sucks.

    I called Vortex first thing this morning. They are going to hand pick an optic and mount it on their range rifle. They will range certify both the zero is correct and that tracking is correct. They are going to send me that exact optic that gets tested so I will have a range certified/verified optic from Vortex pretty soon.

    To their credit they are doing that and sending it out and paying for return shipment at no cost to me. Which that part is very impressive. They are even sending me the replacement optic before I send this one back to them.

    Their front end third party manufacturer needs to get a stern talking to at the very least. I got two copies and both had the same issue. Hopefully the third copy will not have the same issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alamo5000 View Post
    I am about to join you there. This is getting to be stupid. That said Vortex is supposedly making good so I am being patient (for now).

    I sent the first optic back to the retailer and got a refund. I bought a second copy of the optic from a completely different seller thinking it was a one off.

    Got the second optic and I had about 4 mils of upward adjustment and 28 mils down into the dirt. Again. Slight improvement over the first copy but still sucks.

    I called Vortex first thing this morning. They are going to hand pick an optic and mount it on their range rifle. They will range certify both the zero is correct and that tracking is correct. They are going to send me that exact optic that gets tested so I will have a range certified/verified optic from Vortex pretty soon.

    To their credit they are doing that and sending it out and paying for return shipment at no cost to me. Which that part is very impressive. They are even sending me the replacement optic before I send this one back to them.

    Their front end third party manufacturer needs to get a stern talking to at the very least. I got two copies and both had the same issue. Hopefully the third copy will not have the same issue.
    I want the job where every time my company screws up I get to go shoot a rifle and the company pays for the ammo

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoilerUp View Post
    I want the job where every time my company screws up I get to go shoot a rifle and the company pays for the ammo
    When all this is done I'm waiting to finally find out that someone milled the slope on my optic mount the wrong direction or some BS like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoilerUp View Post
    I want the job where every time my company screws up I get to go shoot a rifle and the company pays for the ammo
    Go see a Coast Guard recruiter.
    There's no "Team" in F**K YOU!

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    Here is the latest update.

    I called Vortex and told them what was going on. Right out of the gate they hand picked an optic and took it to their range to do a range certification of that optic. They sent it out as a replacement with no questions asked.

    I got the new optic and straight out of the box I lost around 5 mils from their zero.

    They sent me a signed target with a .33" group on it and the optic set to their zero.

    I tried to zero with the riser and then out of curiosity I took the riser off and rezeroed. I lost about 1 mil of travel after removing a 22 MOA base.

    All of the math points directly to a bad scope mount. So far I've tried three scopes on three rifles (if you include the one at Vortex) and the only commonality is the mount.

    I've done the math and it works out that someone milled the cant the wrong direction on the mount.

    I don't know if that's true just yet but it would be really embarrassing if it is. I have several more tests to run but this is the first time I've ever tried to test a mount.

    Like I said though, two or three metrics all point that way.

    1. Straight out of the box from Vortex after their range certification I lost say 5ish mils from a known zero that was obtained without any canted bases.

    2. When I zeroed with the 22 MOA riser and 15 MOA mount I had roughly 12 Mils of up travel left. On paper that's 37 MOA of added elevation. When I removed the riser though I only lost just over a mil of travel.

    If those two were effectively cancelling each other out you would get the results I got.

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    I will add that the first optic was definitely off. I only had 1 mil of elevation left on that one.

    The second one in hindsight was probably fine, as is the current one.

    I will do more tests soon to try and get to the bottom of this. As of right now all fingers point to the mount.

  15. #15
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    Sounds like your mount lacks the elevation it claims to have? Not being Mr Obvious, I'm not the long range shooter any of you are, so I'm just trying to follow along. Am I tracking, or completely off base?

    Also, have you tried another mount of known relative accuracy, with or whiteout elevation to see if the optic works as it should?
    There's no "Team" in F**K YOU!

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