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Thread: Troubleshooting

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joelski View Post
    Sounds like your mount lacks the elevation it claims to have? Not being Mr Obvious, I'm not the long range shooter any of you are, so I'm just trying to follow along. Am I tracking, or completely off base?

    Also, have you tried another mount of known relative accuracy, with or whiteout elevation to see if the optic works as it should?
    I have not tried another mount. If I can get a hold of a 34 mm mount or rings it would solve a lot questions. I didn't want to run out and buy some mount just to test once.

    As far as elevation goes the scope definitely has it. Total travel from up to down is advertised as 31mils but in reality it has more than that. Actual is a bit over 32mils from top to bottom.

    When you zero it it should be around the 15 or 16 mil mark within about a mil. That is one of the things Vortex physically tested on the optic. On their gun it was like 3 or 4 moa (about 1 mil) from the optical center which is where it should be. That was with plain scope rings without any cant built in. But as soon as I put it on my rifle the zero goes to the 21 mil mark.

    If you do the math 15 moa (the cant built into the scope) should be about 4.5 mils. So if they were zeroed at 15.5 mils with my mount I should be zeroed at about 11 mils.

    The other test they did was a tracking test which means when you click the knob how do you know one mil is really one mil? They basically have a setup at a known distance with hash marks on a wall or pole or something at exactly the right places. If you dial up 10 mils and if your optic doesn't match up then something is wrong. The one they sent me passed all the tests they did, both tracking and zero.

    Depending on where things line up I might not use the riser. I bought it on a whim because I had one on my 10/22 and at the time I hadn't picked out an optic yet. If I need it I can use it.

    That said when I zeroed the optic with 22 MOA riser it should add about 6.5 mils so when I took it off you would think the point of zero would change by that amount. But it didn't. It only went down by a little over 1 mil.

    Something is really weird going on here.

  2. #17
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    Well folks, I think I have verified the problem. Throughout the day today I was thinking about how I could test this mount.

    I had the optic on the rifle with a confirmed zero from this morning. I took the entire upper off of the lower and removed the bolt carrier group. Using shooting bags to stabilize the upper I bore sighted on a single light that is on the neighbors place across the street. Naturally the cross hairs and my bore sighting lined up perfectly because I had been shooting earlier that day.

    I then removed the mount and optic and removed the optic from the mount and intentionally mounted it backwards. It's a cantilever mount so there is really no way to mistake that. Anyway I mounted it all up again (but backwards) and put it back on the gun. I bore sighted it again. After adjusting the optic to be on the same point as my bore I had approximately 19 mils of upward travel. That would put my zero with a flat mount/rings at around the 14.5 mil area which would line up perfectly with what Vortex got with that exact scope.

    Since that is a single light bulb there was no mistaking it. There are no other street lights and other stuff to confuse it.

    At this point I am 100% certain that someone machined this optic mount with the slope going the wrong direction. I can shoot it tomorrow like that (in the mount backwards) but I see no point in that.

    Holy cow. That's crazy. That said if they hired a machine operator that wasn't also a shooter I could see how that could happen I guess. That said it's 100% obvious that no one double checked his work.

  3. #18
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    Which mount do you have?

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoilerUp View Post
    Which mount do you have?
    Griffin SPRM 15MOA Cantilever

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by alamo5000 View Post
    Griffin SPRM 15MOA Cantilever
    Interesting. Yeah, hard to get that backwards, but, hey, there is always someone...

    Name:  image001.png
Views: 69
Size:  794.6 KB

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoilerUp View Post
    Interesting. Yeah, hard to get that backwards, but, hey, there is always someone...

    Name:  image001.png
Views: 69
Size:  794.6 KB

    LOL!

    I mounted mine just like that. It's sad but it works better that way than the other way around.

    I'm waiting to hear back from Griffin. Hopefully it will be pain free, well as pain in the ass free as it can be going through 3 optics and all the back and forth there.

  7. #22
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    I mean..itís Chinese

    Iíve learned my lesson with vortex.. Their cheap lines are..well cheaply made in China...

    I only use the PST and above from them..no problems with any of that line..

    Edit.. pic is backwards cause yards use the wrong scope/eye relief..

    Maybe the mount is the problem? Backwards..lol?

  8. #23
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    Troubleshooting

    Griffin with another copy.....funny itís all jacked up. Just buy the real thing and not have any problems. SPUHR not the Sperm...

  9. #24
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    Update:

    Heard back from Griffin and they sent me a return label. They said they are going to inspect the optic mount to confirm my findings.

    The mount has already been packaged up and mailed back to them.

  10. #25
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    No chance the riser was backwards? Man, that would easily solve the problem!
    There's no "Team" in F**K YOU!

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joelski View Post
    No chance the riser was backwards? Man, that would easily solve the problem!
    Zero chance. The problem was there when the riser was sitting on a desk in my house and I was out back shooting without it. The scope and all that stuff was tested on multiple rifles and was tested with and without the riser in place. The riser did help me diagnose the problem though.

    One of the things that keyed me in was I zeroed the rifle with the riser in place. I had 12 ish mils of elevation left in the turret. I removed the riser completely and zeroed without the riser and had 11 mils left in the turret. I lost just over 1 mil without the riser. I should have lost over 6 mils. That tells me the cants of the riser and mount were offsetting each other. The difference between the riser and the scope mount was the only elevation gain I got using that configuration.

    I can go over the math on it but the math all points to the mount. Which led me to keep on testing. When I mounted the scope just like in BoilerUp's picture I had all the correct elevation and it matched what Vortex got during their range certification. I did that without using the riser.

    I also put a pair of calipers on it and confirmed that it isn't the problem. It's supposed to be higher in the back and lower in the front.

    Another measure I did without the riser was measure from the bottom of the bell of the scope to the top of the rail. Mounted up 'correctly' with the cantilever to the front the bell was physically higher than when I turned it around backwards. That was measured with calipers as well. Canted scope mounts are supposed to be higher in the back like a dragster.

    If Griffin comes back and says that's not the problem I will be amazed and purchase a different mount from somebody else.

    It took me three scopes and a month to figure it all out but here we go.

    Another thing that stood out to me is I put the scope on it's zero with just the mount. Without dialing anything and configuring the scope as in Boilerup's picture I gained 9 mils of elevation.

    15MOA = 4.4mils

    If you took the native zero that Vortex got and subtracted 4.4 mils that's my zero with just the scope mount and no riser. The reason I gained 9 mils was because the built in mechanical zero is what it is. You have to add and subtract from that base number.
    Last edited by alamo5000; 29 June 2021 at 18:40.

  12. #27
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    Griffin confirmed the problem. They are replacing the mount.

  13. #28
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    LMFAO

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by SINNER View Post
    LMFAO
    Agreed. It should have never happened.

    I don't know if it was a malicious employee or someone that can run a machine but isn't into long range shooting.

    Either way hopefully they introduce more QC and avoid embarrassing situations like this. It should have never made it into a box much less out the door.

    I don't have any malicious intention towards them but in my opinion things have declined a bit as they have tried to grow. Before they were definitely my go to because you could order and not worry about what you are getting.

    This and one other thing has me really looking at options when choices need to be made now.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by tact View Post
    SPUHR not the Sperm...
    Agreed on the name. Their army humor needs to mellow out some if not a lot.

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