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  1. #16
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    nm stands for nanometer. It is simply the wavelength of the light. Sensitivity to specific wavelengths will depend on the optic in use. 850nm is the standard wavelength for IR; folks will use 940nm for reduced visible signature if using LED illuminators, though as noted in the above link, there is typically reduced performance due to reduced sensitivity to that wavelength by most devices.

    mW is milliwatt, and is equivalent to lumens, which is to say, it is the raw output, and does not account for flood/throw. Note that laser outputs are much more efficient than LED outputs, which means that something like a DBAL-D2 with a 600 mW LED illuminator is somewhere between a full power AN/PEQ-15, which have a 30 mW laser illuminator, and a MAWL-C1+, which can go up to 67 mW.

  2. #17
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    Thank you for the link. That helps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Default.mp3 View Post
    nm stands for nanometer. It is simply the wavelength of the light. Sensitivity to specific wavelengths will depend on the optic in use. 850nm is the standard wavelength for IR; folks will use 940nm for reduced visible signature if using LED illuminators, though as noted in the above link, there is typically reduced performance due to reduced sensitivity to that wavelength by most devices.

    mW is milliwatt, and is equivalent to lumens, which is to say, it is the raw output, and does not account for flood/throw. Note that laser outputs are much more efficient than LED outputs, which means that something like a DBAL-D2 with a 600 mW LED illuminator is somewhere between a full power AN/PEQ-15, which have a 30 mW laser illuminator, and a MAWL-C1+, which can go up to 67 mW.
    Thank you!!! That definitely helps. It lets me know that I am on the right track (in my understanding). In my head I was pretty much translating all the other stuff I learned about flashlights over to IR, and it seems like I was correct in that assumption.

    If I ultimately start to dabble in this (potentially rather expensive) area, I would like (at least for now) to not have to over do it with equipment and so forth. My first idea is to use all of my existing gear as it sits, but just swap out the head on my light (it is compatible) to an IR head.

    Although my experience with NV is extremely limited I don't know if I would want to just walk around illuminating everything all the time. That means the momentary button on my light would be nice. Maybe I am just biased, but I really do like it and how I have it set up. It's simple, no BS, no wires or excessive batteries, and most importantly it's easy to activate when I need it. Plus what I have in mind potentially can cut down on me needing to buying other stuff.

    I found this video here about the Arisaka head that I saw on their site. It should give a good idea what to expect from that side of it should I decide to dip my toe into this.


  3. #18
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    Keep in mind that whatever way you have to "illuminate" an area/target, you still have to have a way to aim. That then leads to setting up your optic in a way that's compatible with NV. If you're wearing the NV, then that complicates things further, as not everything is functionally compatible with wearing NVGs. A PEQ solves a lot of that by providing a secondary aiming source via the "laser."

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by gatordev View Post
    Keep in mind that whatever way you have to "illuminate" an area/target, you still have to have a way to aim. That then leads to setting up your optic in a way that's compatible with NV. If you're wearing the NV, then that complicates things further, as not everything is functionally compatible with wearing NVGs. A PEQ solves a lot of that by providing a secondary aiming source via the "laser."

    Those digital scopes that I am considering all have reticles built in specifically for aiming. The one I have been reading about the most (so far) has 14 total reticle options in nine colors each. It can zoom down to 2x and all the way up to 16x.

    It also has an optional external rechargeable battery that mounts to a pic rail (otherwise it runs on two CR123A batteries). With that external battery pack it can continuously run for a long time. The one review I saw regarding the battery said he charges it once I week and goes out night hunting several times a week.

    Again, I am not really looking for super ninja seal team 6 functionality, but more like popping a pig that is tearing up someone's yard. It says it has a range out to 300 yards but I wouldn't shoot that far (at night), at least not around here.

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  5. #20
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    At least for now, the general concept would be to start with something like that (to dabble in it), but then later on once I get addicted to it I can spend $15,000 on a setup.

    That said the idea would be to start with that type of setup, then get a hand held thermal that could possibly have the option to also be mounted up to a firearm. I could sit in my lawn chair and detect with the thermal and shoot with the NV.

  6. #21
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    This video shows you how the video looks like at several distances in the day or night. Should give you a rough idea.


  7. #22
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    Lol
    Alamo and his 8 page replies.. Too much to read to gaf
    You hold it down typewriter

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by alamo5000 View Post
    Those digital scopes that I am considering all have reticles built in specifically for aiming. The one I have been reading about the most (so far) has 14 total reticle options in nine colors each. It can zoom down to 2x and all the way up to 16x.
    I initially thought you were talking about an IR optic, but now see you're talking about a NV optic. Either way, just be careful with the magnification. There's no way that optic you posted is providing 16x optically (it's too short, or the eye relief would be terrible). There's a lot of digital zoom going on there. Now, with a 4K sensor you can get a way with a lot, but understand the image quality is going to degrade with more mag. On a dark night, that will make NV lose effectiveness quickly. Off-setting that with some sort of illimunator will definitely help (like he was doing in the video). As an aside, you can also use illumination to help counter incompatible/bright lights that are blowing out your NV as well.



    It also has an optional external rechargeable battery that mounts to a pic rail (otherwise it runs on two CR123A batteries). With that external battery pack it can continuously run for a long time. The one review I saw regarding the battery said he charges it once I week and goes out night hunting several times a week.

    Again, I am not really looking for super ninja seal team 6 functionality, but more like popping a pig that is tearing up someone's yard. It says it has a range out to 300 yards but I wouldn't shoot that far (at night), at least not around here.
    Could be a great option, but as others have said, just understand that with using something weapon mounted, the only way you're going to see something is to be pointing your rifle at every thing. That may not be a big deal for where you are, but just understand that it requires muzzle awareness.

    Quote Originally Posted by alamo5000 View Post
    This video shows you how the video looks like at several distances in the day or night. Should give you a rough idea.
    I only saw the day mode at 20y, so it would be interesting to see how effective it is at a rifle distance and digitally zoomed. It being 4K really does help. Technology is amazing.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by alamo5000 View Post
    At least for now, the general concept would be to start with something like that (to dabble in it), but then later on once I get addicted to it I can spend $15,000 on a setup.

    That said the idea would be to start with that type of setup, then get a hand held thermal that could possibly have the option to also be mounted up to a firearm. I could sit in my lawn chair and detect with the thermal and shoot with the NV.
    Just wanted to share something that has helped me and saved me money in the long run. In the past, when researching and window shopping for something I would start at the bottom and work my way up in the quality of an item. The problem with that is I usually ended up settling on a lower end model then needed to sell it to get the one I really wanted/needed in the first place, almost always at a loss. I recently flipped my logic around and started looking at the best of the best and what it offered compared to lower quality items which helps me understand what the best can do for me and for the problem I am looking to rectify. It really helps to shine a light on what lower end models truly lack. In all reality since I am just window shopping this can only help me and not hurt. On the flip side, starting at the bottom and going up from there never really tells me what the next up model is truly lacking and gives me a false sense of quality since I am only comparing it to the model below. This really works well, as 100% of my purchases in the last few years have been rock solid and I couldn't be happier. When I am window shopping, its not about what I can afford (since I am not ready to buy anyways) its about logic, reasoning, and quality to ultimately guide me to the best for my application. Try it, it works...
    The best way to survive a violent encounter is to be the one inflicting the most violence.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stone View Post
    Just wanted to share something that has helped me and saved me money in the long run. In the past, when researching and window shopping for something I would start at the bottom and work my way up in the quality of an item. The problem with that is I usually ended up settling on a lower end model then needed to sell it to get the one I really wanted/needed in the first place, almost always at a loss. I recently flipped my logic around and started looking at the best of the best and what it offered compared to lower quality items which helps me understand what the best can do for me and for the problem I am looking to rectify. It really helps to shine a light on what lower end models truly lack. In all reality since I am just window shopping this can only help me and not hurt. On the flip side, starting at the bottom and going up from there never really tells me what the next up model is truly lacking and gives me a false sense of quality since I am only comparing it to the model below. This really works well, as 100% of my purchases in the last few years have been rock solid and I couldn't be happier. When I am window shopping, its not about what I can afford (since I am not ready to buy anyways) its about logic, reasoning, and quality to ultimately guide me to the best for my application. Try it, it works...
    The problem with that approach here is that there is a massive price gap between the low tier digital systems and the low tier analog systems, along with significant differences between the capabilities and modes of use. I would almost put digital scope systems and traditional analog headborne systems to be separate things, outside of something like a SIONYX.

  11. #26
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    You missed my point, since price is irrelevant when researching... Its about understanding a topic from the best perspective, what the product is, is irrelevant as well since this logic can be applied to anything we are considering buying.
    Last edited by Stone; 7 April 2022 at 10:22.
    The best way to survive a violent encounter is to be the one inflicting the most violence.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stone View Post
    You missed my point, since price is irrelevant when researching...
    I'd argue that the problem with your approach is that looking at the best of the best for night vision doesn't provide much helpful information about anything that would be in alamo5000's budget, simply because the technologies are very different. Learning a lot about grand tourers doesn't help you much when your budget only allows for a commuter bicycle, when the goal is to get something to get to work.

  13. #28
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    Your still not getting it, its not about budget, its not about price. That only comes into play later, chew on what I said for a while. Again, price is irrelevant when researching a topic or product its about gaining the best intel to guide me in an eventual purchase.
    The best way to survive a violent encounter is to be the one inflicting the most violence.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stone View Post
    Your still not getting it, its not about budget, its not about price. That only comes into play later, chew on what I said for a while.
    I disagree.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stone View Post
    I recently flipped my logic around and started looking at the best of the best and what it offered compared to lower quality items which helps me understand what the best can do for me and for the problem I am looking to rectify. It really helps to shine a light on what lower end models truly lack. In all reality since I am just window shopping this can only help me and not hurt. On the flip side, starting at the bottom and going up from there never really tells me what the next up model is truly lacking and gives me a false sense of quality since I am only comparing it to the model below.
    You stated that you like to start at the best of the best to better understand your application better. However, the best of the best here offers radically different options and capabilities than the bottom tier options; thus, I would argue it would misguide someone that would have been misguided from starting at the low end, anyway. I agree that critical thinking is integral to solving each problem, but framing it in the context of what the best can offer can offer just as many biases and false starts as constraining yourself at the low end. In this case, there are capabilities that the top end do not have that the low end offers as standard, and vice versa; again, this is because of how different the products fundamentally are.

    If you argue that I'm missing the point, and that it's just strictly about critical thinking, and that one can ignore products... then I dunno what the point of saying you "started looking at the best of the best and what it offered compared to lower quality items" is, since that inherently implies that products still matter in order to understand the mission.

  15. #30
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    I said you missed the point because your first two counter arguments where based solely on price/budget which has nothing to do with what I was trying to get across.

    "I would argue it would misguide someone that would have been misguided from starting at the low end, anyway."

    Then how is that even an argument if according to your logic both starting points are illogical? "Bad reason fallacy"

    Starting at the top tier and working your way down offers a substantial frame of reference that highlights what the lower end lacks. Starting at the bottom and working your way up distorts this because the lower end capabilities are subconsciously referenced and then compared to the higher end. Logic is only as good as its starting point. Starting at the top teaches me what the full capabilities of a system are then I have a better understanding and full view as opposed to starting at the bottom with a 10% understanding of what a system can fully do. Thus, when we research something bias are reduced and better decisions can be ascertained when my starting point knowledge provides a clear vantage point.
    The best way to survive a violent encounter is to be the one inflicting the most violence.

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