Lets talk .45's

**Army Chief** · 25 July 2009, 12:07

Haven't ever served in corrections, but I'm more than a little surprised that off-duty carry is discouraged/not-permitted. If parole officers generally feel the need to carry, then I would think that a prison guard would have twice the incentive to retain a bit of "added capability" on the street. Am I missing something here?

AC

**Gray** · 25 July 2009, 12:43

Before you finally decide, take the time to look/shoot the S&W M&P 45 with thumb safety. It may be a pleasant alternative.

**Gray** · 25 July 2009, 12:52

A. Chief,

As a LE dinosaur (the name gray should really be flesh tone), the past is another country...they do things differently there.

I recently had a neighboring police chief tell me to talk with one of his subordinates regarding a firearm issue because he "does not know anything about guns"; at least he was honest. The reality that he and many (if not the majority) can ascend to those positions without that knowledge stands as a stark reminder of the current state of the vocation.

Always remember: When you are hired, your funeral is already amortized. Two cops in a car are synergistic in efficiency, and with that comes litigation that cannot be amortized. It is cheaper to put one cop in a grave than two cops in a car.

**gunnut284** · 25 July 2009, 15:46

I have had a Sig P220 and have a G21SF. I sold the Sig to get the Glock. Just wasn't happy with the trigger or accuracy of the Sig. And I'm issued a P226. The S&W M&P line is nice as well. I carry the Glock regularly IWB without much problem though a smaller gun is easier.

**JustMatt** · 25 July 2009, 18:21

Rob S. - I am ashamed to say that I just haven't gotten around to it. I know all I got to do is send in the paperwork and $75 bucks but somehow that money keeps finding its way out of my wallet.

And I hate to tell you Chief, the Administration in my county is less than pro Corrections. We are paid the same and are issue the same badge but in the eyes of the Chief Deputy and the Sheriff we are red headed step children. I could go a county north or south and be treated very differently.

Back to the guns, thanks for the opinions and advice. Like I said earlier, just gotta find some time to shoot them and decide.

**oregonshooter** · 25 July 2009, 18:24

JustMatt,
You should be covered under the LEO federal law. No need to spend money on a CCW.

**Gray** · 25 July 2009, 19:01

JustMatt,

I was not saying I was a chief, I was replying to army chief re his comment about ccw. Sorry for the confusion.

**Army Chief** · 25 July 2009, 23:46

Gray,

No worries: your previous post was clear and concise. I think JustMatt was actually responding to my earlier remarks.

Former LEO, and current Chief (Army CW4) here -- but I am definitely not a police chief, either. :)

So, it sounds like we've arrived at the Glock, if we want to go with something familiar and largely bulletproof, the SIG if we wish to branch out slightly, but still stay in familiar territory, or a 1911 if we're willing to master a new manual of arms. Might as well toss the HK 45 into contention as well -- what I've seen of this pistol has been impressive. (I'll bet a used USP would be quite affordable, too, if you had any interest there.)

Finally, back in May I had an opportunity to check out the new FNP-45, and that too looked to be a very promising design.

AC

**Stickman** · 26 July 2009, 09:16

I would certainly take a look at a P220, I carry that over my G21 for days where I want a .45 for offduty events.

I've carried my G21 in plain clothes assignments, and it works, but the P220 is much easier and is more like a 1911.

**Gray** · 26 July 2009, 10:06

No arguments with the comments, but I see not much support for the M&P. Is that just because of its newness or are there other issues?

**cmoore** · 26 July 2009, 11:22

Don't forget the Springfield 1911 double-stack that takes the Para-Ord magazines. One of our guys at work carries it on-duty and really likes it. I've shot it and find it comfortable to shoot. If you're sold on the 1911-style, and want the capacity, that may meet your needs.

Happy gun-hunting....

**JustMatt** · 26 July 2009, 12:55

OregonShooter - I wasn't being a smart@$$ I was actually talking to ArmyChief, sorry for the confusion. I'm not ruling out a 1911 but I am concerned with getting a quality piece for under $1k. Seems like there are more opinions about 1911's then there are about which AR platform to choose. One group loves Kimber the other hates them, Colt's seem to be a highly regarded piece but I can't find any info on there website. I do love my old SIG but the cost of a P220 would almost get me into a 1911. Then you have the capacity issues of the polymer framed guns holding 3-5 more rounds than the steel framed guns. I feel like a fat kid in a doughnut shop, to many tasty options to choose! Stick, when you carry your 220 do you use the 8 round mags or the 10? I was curious if the 10 rounder sticks out the bottom funny or is it flush? And now Gray has me looking at the M&P which looks like a decent gun at a good price. I need to just say screw it and get em all! The girlfriend would love that

**Creeky73** · 27 July 2009, 16:38

Just thinking out loud here...I was considering a 1911 for a spell, and I decided against it for many of the reasons AC brings up in this post. I get the impression that a sub $1k 1911 is probably not quite the gun that one would expect if they have had no previous experience with that platform...and I have little. The only one that I have personally fired was a custom job but I have no way of knowing how it stacks up against the mainstream high dollar versions. I do know, however, that I do not want to spend $900 on another gun that I feel compelled to spend another grand or more on after the fact. My AR has already turned into too much of a money pit. But one thing I wonder...everyone speaks so well of the enduring design of the 1911, how it must be fantastic since it has survived and flourished this long. I don't hear too much about other guns where master craftsmen spend so many hours tweaking and tuning to perfection, resulting in these $4k guns, so I wonder how much better other designs could be if they received even a fraction of the attention that the 1911 gets? In other words, are these high dollar custom guns that most people will never be able to afford setting an unrealistic standard for 1911's? I am thinking you could just about turn a Hi-Point into something pretty sweet after $3k worth of work at a master gunsmith, so is that really saying much for the platform?

**Stickman** · 27 July 2009, 17:06

Originally Posted by Gray

No arguments with the comments, but I see not much support for the M&P. Is that just because of its newness or are there other issues?

I've heard good things about the 9mm & .45 versions, but have not tried any of them myself.

**Gray** · 27 July 2009, 20:28

Stick buddy,

You owe it to yourself to try them. Talk to Chris Corino (S&W's NW rep), great guy, easy to work with. He came out to our location (East Moose Nipple) with his whole repertoire.

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