NFA Trust question

[CarbonScoring]

I got my NFA Trust set up by Coyote Rifleworks a couple days ago and should be getting it notarized soon. I've got a question about one section I was hoping someone else who has used an NFA Trust before couple clear up.

There is the ASSIGNMENT TO THE TRUST section. Do receivers for SBRs need to be added to here before the Form 1 can be filled out? I would assume so, but I just want to be sure.

Also, right now I'm planning on only making 1 SBR, but I may, at another time, make a second one, would it be a good idea to assign a second one at the same time, even though I'm only filing one Form 1 at this time? The issue of me or the trust owning them isn't a concern for me. I'm just wondering if it's easier to do it now rather than amending the trust at a later date.

Thanks for any clarity.

[SwissyJim]

I believe that once you have the stamp, then you assign it to the trust. When I get my stamp back is when I add to my schedule A - what I was told by the lawyer who set mine up. My SBR lower was added the same way. It was the first thing on my Trust... firearm-wise. We did add a 10$ bill when we set it up as he said they like to see something already in the Trust when submitted. Maybe malarkey, but he's set up more Trusts locally than anyone else so I went with it.

[Gaspipeshooter]

As Swissy said, the trust has to have an asset to be legal; a $5 bill, $10 bill, whatever. Rather than cash, I actually put the lower that will be my SBR as the first and only asset on the schedule A, the Assignment document.

[Dstrbdmedic167]

backing what Jim said you put things that are in your trust there after they're approved not before. A trust is a entity that has to have something of value to be a legal trust,. I used my grandfathers ruger super blackhawk I knew id never get rid of but it needs to be something with a serial number

[gatordev]

backing what Jim said you put things that are in your trust there after they're approved not before. A trust is a entity that has to have something of value to be a legal trust,. I used my grandfathers ruger super blackhawk I knew id never get rid of but it needs to be something with a serial number

Unfortunately, not all the examiners have historically agreed with this. In the past, Forms have been kicked back for not having an assignments page, even if there is no mention of it. Mine came with an assignments page but makes no mention of it in the actual text of the trust. Theoretically, one shouldn't be needed, but I've always erred on the side of caution and put a single item on an assignment and included it with the Form. And while it shouldn't be assigned until after it's been approved (for a Form 4), no one has complained to me yet for including it.

It seems the "right" answer isn't always what gets the paperwork completed.

[CarbonScoring]

Rather than cash, I actually put the lower that will be my SBR as the first and only asset on the schedule A, the Assignment document.

backing what Jim said you put things that are in your trust there after they're approved not before.

So there seems to be some difference of opinion here. Is this just the nature of the ATF; nothing is consistent?

So putting something like a $10 bill on there seems to make sense. If I do not put the lower receiver on there to begin with, then I just need to amend the trust after the approval?

[UWone77]

I only list them after they are approved.

[Dstrbdmedic167]

Initially before then after. At least that's how the examiner described it to me when I called because I was as confused as you were initially.

This is how it was best described to me. When you buy the lower it is bought in your name so you own it not the trust at this point. It is then transferred to your trust when your form is approved. So it should then be added to the assignment page as well as my beneficiaries page.

More food for thought is trust and suppressors . I can buy the suppressor but my trust does not gain ownership until it is approved by the ATF it is then added to my trust.

To be a legal, valid trust it needs to have something of value that is why most people put a $10 bill. I used the revolver and GasPipeShooter used the lower.

[CarbonScoring]

OK, thanks for the help everyone.

On a side note, since we're talking before or after, does the engraving need to be done before the approval? I'm mostly seeing people posting to get it engraved either before or while the paperwork is being processed.

[Gaspipeshooter]

OK, thanks for the help everyone.

On a side note, since we're talking before or after, does the engraving need to be done before the approval? I'm mostly seeing people posting to get it engraved either before or while the paperwork is being processed.

Before, since it will be a regulated item afterwards and you will not be able to ship it to get engraved.

[UWone77]

OK, thanks for the help everyone.

On a side note, since we're talking before or after, does the engraving need to be done before the approval? I'm mostly seeing people posting to get it engraved either before or while the paperwork is being processed.

Imagine your lower having a mishap while getting engraved after the approval, misspelling, or even worse, lost in the mail.

[Stone]

Before, since it will be a regulated item afterwards and you will not be able to ship it to get engraved.

I don't think that's correct. What if the form is denied? The process isn't complete until its engraved.

"A stripped receiver without a barrel does not meet the definition of a SBR or SBS under the NFA"

"While a receiver alone may be classified as a “firearm” under the Gun Control Act (GCA), SBRs and SBSs are classified in totality under the National Firearms Act (NFA). A firearm that meets the definition of a SBR consists of a rifle that has a barrel less than 16 inches in length"

The receiver can be shipped before or after its approved. Its still "just a receiver" In fact you don't need to ship it through an FFL either since the engraving process is considered as a "repair"

[SwissyJim]

OK, thanks for the help everyone.

On a side note, since we're talking before or after, does the engraving need to be done before the approval? I'm mostly seeing people posting to get it engraved either before or while the paperwork is being processed.

First, my advise - get the engraving done first. That way, if it gets screwed up, you are not locked to that lower and can use another. My story, and reason why - I got my eForm approval back, and started looking at places to get the engraving done. Being a good little boy, I tried to go local and spend my money here. Did some asking and reading online, and found the place the local shops used. Went there, inquired, and went with them... did it while I waited. Now, mind you, this place has done a number for a local shop that is a Class III dealer and has SBR's and cans. (BTW, their reality show SUCKS). So the guy walks back, hands it to me, and I about shit. It looks like some kid was making a 'Worlds Greatest Dad' plaque with a dremel tool. It looks like SHIT. Chipped, not deep enough, HUGE lettering, just horrible. We had some words, and I left completely and totally pissed. BUT... the lower was already registered and I was told that was it - I could not 'transfer' th stamp to a different lower. I ended up sending it out to be done a second time, and had a great experience with Ident Marking. I had them do the area under the trigger guard so it's not obvious to anyone.

But I ended up needing to JB Weld the fubar engraving, and I spent HOURS adding layers, wet sanding, and making sure it was smooth. I planned on having it cerakoted, and we were pretty sure it would be covered. but, when it was done, there was a tone difference and you could see the area I had worked on thru the cerakote, even tho it was the same color. I ended up having some stickers made that cover that section of the magwell, and in all reality it turned out looking pretty cool.

But my advice is, get the engraving done first in case you get screwed like I did.

[Stone]

I got my NFA Trust set up by Coyote Rifleworks a couple days ago and should be getting it notarized soon. I've got a question about one section I was hoping someone else who has used an NFA Trust before couple clear up.

There is the ASSIGNMENT TO THE TRUST section. Do receivers for SBRs need to be added to here before the Form 1 can be filled out? I would assume so, but I just want to be sure.

Also, right now I'm planning on only making 1 SBR, but I may, at another time, make a second one, would it be a good idea to assign a second one at the same time, even though I'm only filing one Form 1 at this time? The issue of me or the trust owning them isn't a concern for me. I'm just wondering if it's easier to do it now rather than amending the trust at a later date.

Thanks for any clarity.

Think about that for a minute, how could you add an SBR to a trust that isn't an SBR until its approved and engraved. Remember that its not actually an SBR until you attach an un-pinned barrel under 16.1" or are in possession of said barrel.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/nati...-shotguns.html

[Gaspipeshooter]

I don't think that's correct. What if the form is denied? The process isn't complete until its engraved.

"A stripped receiver without a barrel does not meet the definition of a SBR or SBS under the NFA"

"While a receiver alone may be classified as a “firearm” under the Gun Control Act (GCA), SBRs and SBSs are classified in totality under the National Firearms Act (NFA). A firearm that meets the definition of a SBR consists of a rifle that has a barrel less than 16 inches in length"

The receiver can be shipped before or after its approved. Its still "just a receiver" In fact you don't need to ship it through an FFL either since the engraving process is considered as a "repair"

This is what I was interpreting for my answer:

Q: If I remove the short barrel from the registered SBR or SBS, is the receiver still subject to NFA transfer and possession regulations?

If the possessor retains control over the barrel or other parts required to assemble the SBR or SBS, the firearm would still be subject to NFA transfer and possession regulations. ATF recommends contacting State law enforcement officials to ensure compliance with state and local law.