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  1. #31
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    Since I know a couple boutique shops that make really nice suppressors but don't get talked about unless you're in certain circles...

    Mack Brothers
    Templar Tactical

  2. #32
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    OK I have been looking online and occasionally reading up on suppression. Kind of restating my previous comment...I normally try to learn as much as I can about something (especially something like this that requires all the bull$h%% to go get)...

    My first follow up question is specifically about 5.56/.223 suppression.

    First thing is I do not quite understand 'how' decibels work... so if I see something that says "minus 25 decibels" (I just made that number up as an example)... but I am not quite sure how to judge which ones are actually better at suppression for this caliber but obviously the more Db reduction the better. I think an unsuppressed 5.56 round is at about 160 decibels... so if its my imaginary 'minus 25 Db' that would make it 135 Db...but I don't know how to quantify that in what I would 'really hear' ... I just need to go shoot a suppressed 5.56 or hear someone shooting it to know if that's the route I want to go or not.

    Next question... supersonic crack... lets take out the gun and all other variables for a moment... what would the Db level be for a 5.56 supersonic crack? Say for a minute we could completely eliminate all other sound, how many Db would that 'crack' be? Whatever that magical number is it just seems to me that trying to suppress beyond that is sort of futile or more or less a waste of effort... am I wrong in thinking this way?

    I have a few other questions but I am trying to not pile everything on in one response.

    My goal is to be able to shoot without ear muffs on...and to basically not wake up the neighbors with my sonic 'cracks'... so if I go blasting away or even shooting at night I want to have that option. Don't get me wrong... I have plenty of space to shoot, but among other considerations I am trying to be considerate of others.

    I am thinking that if I really want to go suppressed I should probably go with a .300 BO and aim to suppress that...and then buy or reload subsonic loads. It seems to me that is the most overall quiet rifle round out there...but this leads me to ask why I just can't reload subsonic .223 for some plinking rounds? Has anyone else done this and does the rifle have any issues cycling or functioning if that were to be done?

    OK I really will stop now because I don't want to overload with 900 questions at once.

  3. #33
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    ok I can't resist... I did read a lot believe it or not... but what causes POI shift when using a suppressor? This of course is high on the priority list as well. I want minimal POI shift... but please note I will rarely if ever shoot it beyond 200 yards...

    As of right now I think what I initially thought I wanted (5.56) and what I might end up with are two different things. (Possibly a good thing... shows that I am learning)...

    I might end up with some sort of hog gun.... that seems to me to be more along the lines of what it would take to satisfy me :) .300 BO...subsonic with minimal POI shift at 100 -200 yard range and inward.

    I think I could achieve the whisper quiet 'let's not wake up the neighbors' criteria if I go that route.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ordnance View Post
    Since I know a couple boutique shops that make really nice suppressors but don't get talked about unless you're in certain circles...

    Mack Brothers
    Templar Tactical
    Mack Brothers look nice and the few people I've heard who own their cans love them. Nothing on Templar on the big forums except "with all the great choices (AAC, SiCo, SureFire) why buy a company that may not be around in a few years?"

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by alamo5000 View Post
    OK I have been looking online and occasionally reading up on suppression. Kind of restating my previous comment...I normally try to learn as much as I can about something (especially something like this that requires all the bull$h%% to go get)...

    My first follow up question is specifically about 5.56/.223 suppression.

    First thing is I do not quite understand 'how' decibels work... so if I see something that says "minus 25 decibels" (I just made that number up as an example)... but I am not quite sure how to judge which ones are actually better at suppression for this caliber but obviously the more Db reduction the better. I think an unsuppressed 5.56 round is at about 160 decibels... so if its my imaginary 'minus 25 Db' that would make it 135 Db...but I don't know how to quantify that in what I would 'really hear' ... I just need to go shoot a suppressed 5.56 or hear someone shooting it to know if that's the route I want to go or not.

    Next question... supersonic crack... lets take out the gun and all other variables for a moment... what would the Db level be for a 5.56 supersonic crack? Say for a minute we could completely eliminate all other sound, how many Db would that 'crack' be? Whatever that magical number is it just seems to me that trying to suppress beyond that is sort of futile or more or less a waste of effort... am I wrong in thinking this way?

    I have a few other questions but I am trying to not pile everything on in one response.

    My goal is to be able to shoot without ear muffs on...and to basically not wake up the neighbors with my sonic 'cracks'... so if I go blasting away or even shooting at night I want to have that option. Don't get me wrong... I have plenty of space to shoot, but among other considerations I am trying to be considerate of others.

    I am thinking that if I really want to go suppressed I should probably go with a .300 BO and aim to suppress that...and then buy or reload subsonic loads. It seems to me that is the most overall quiet rifle round out there...but this leads me to ask why I just can't reload subsonic .223 for some plinking rounds? Has anyone else done this and does the rifle have any issues cycling or functioning if that were to be done?

    OK I really will stop now because I don't want to overload with 900 questions at once.
    Subsonic 5.56 won't cycle.

    I find that 5.56 is still loud, so using a suppressor is mainly for cutting down on flash and concussion. I still wear ear-pro shooting suppressed 5.56, as hearing damage is cumulative. I don't know what the Db levels are for the crack of a 5.56 projectile, but it's certainly quieter than the initial blast down the barrel. It also depends how far your target it. If you're shooting say, 25 yards and in, into a berm on a pistol range, that crack will certainly be less noticeable as the bullet has already hit the hillside.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by alamo5000 View Post
    ok I can't resist... I did read a lot believe it or not... but what causes POI shift when using a suppressor? This of course is high on the priority list as well. I want minimal POI shift... but please note I will rarely if ever shoot it beyond 200 yards...

    As of right now I think what I initially thought I wanted (5.56) and what I might end up with are two different things. (Possibly a good thing... shows that I am learning)...

    I might end up with some sort of hog gun.... that seems to me to be more along the lines of what it would take to satisfy me :) .300 BO...subsonic with minimal POI shift at 100 -200 yard range and inward.

    I think I could achieve the whisper quiet 'let's not wake up the neighbors' criteria if I go that route.
    With no suppressor, the barrel is free to react how it "wants" due to Physics when fired, as are the gasses in front of/around the Bullet in the barrel and just beyond the muzzle. POI shift is caused by two things: a change in barrel harmonics and a change in how the gases interact with the boolit as it exits the muzzle, now into a much smaller "environment".

    The intensity or dB level of an object making/producing no noise (bullet in flight) definitely depends on the size of the object. The Space Shuttle gliding in the atmosphere with no engines whatsoever is deafeningly loud (just an example), but a bullet is somewhere around 140ish dB. The key between the crack of a bullet and the muzzle blast of a rifle is that the suppressor eliminates most of the rifle's noise except for the action and what escapes it, leaving the supersonic crack.....which, at that point, is omnidirectional. I had a great read on this saved somewhere...I'll find it tomorrow hopefully

    Here is some more reading by Dr Phillip Dater (suppressor guru for decades):
    Sound of Silence series:

    Pt1:
    http://www.sadefensejournal.com/wp/?p=29

    Pt2 (all about decibels)
    http://www.sadefensejournal.com/wp/?p=325

    Pt3:
    http://www.sadefensejournal.com/wp/?p=456

    Pt4:
    http://www.sadefensejournal.com/wp/?p=573


    Trying to answer some of your other questions from the first post:
    Modifying a 5.56 semi auto to fire subsonics would take a considerable amount of custom work and then probably limit you to subs only; so very very impractical. For these reasons, either a bolt action rifle is preferred OR a different caliber like 300BLK or a 9mm AR.

    Which leads me to this question: since you just want something quiet to shoot, ever thought about a suppressed 9mm AR with 5-7" barrel? With that, you could switch between supersonics and the subsonic bulets won't be nearly as expensive (Georgia Arms 147gr are great prices, but 158gr Fiocchi 9mm is THE best factory 9mm sub I've used) and you can easily punch paper out to 150yds. 200yds is definitely within range but will have some bullet drop.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Former11B View Post
    Which leads me to this question: since you just want something quiet to shoot, ever thought about a suppressed 9mm AR with 5-7" barrel? With that, you could switch between supersonics and the subsonic bulets won't be nearly as expensive (Georgia Arms 147gr are great prices, but 158gr Fiocchi 9mm is THE best factory 9mm sub I've used) and you can easily punch paper out to 150yds. 200yds is definitely within range but will have some bullet drop.
    Yes, I have thought about it... and all options are on the table and in fact shooting with 9mm would be a great idea. I don't know which options are on the table to get something like that together though. I definitely want to explore that option on a number of levels....I would love a little carbine that has a lot of pew that shoots 9mm :) I had the chance to play with an MP5 (and the MP40) and those were fantastic. They were suppressed and they were fantastic, but I don't have that kind of scratch.

    Do they make kits to convert an AR to 9mm?

    I have also seen a CZ Scorpion which looks pretty awesome.

    The long story short of it I am not sure of my options for a pistol round rifle to either buy or build. That (I think) is most definitely worth the look on how to get there.

    A friend of mine has a Berretta that shoots 9mm... but what else is there or are there kits to build AR uppers for 9mm? Exploring pistol round rifle options is high on the list as of right now. It's cheaper to shoot and quieter.

  8. #38
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    PSA is coming out with some AR-9 stuff on their website, and Rock River Arms has some prebuilt 9mm offerings. Basically with the 9mm ARs, you can get a Glock mag lower (takes G17/19/ and 33rd mags) OR a Colt mag-type lower that takes the metal Colt stick mags. If you own some Glock 9's it might make sense to get the Glock lower...but they're usually harder to find. If you look at ADCO's site they might still sell uppers and lowers seperately so you can build one easily.

    There are some differences with the 9mm bolts: some allow direct swap in with a prebuilt 5.56 AR lower (provided you install a mag block) but others require 9mm specific hammers....that's where I am at my limit on know-how. I backed out of the 9mm AR game for now because with what I wanted, it was going to be very expensive and I want to do other stuff first

    Colt and Bushmaster have both made 9mm ARs....and you might be able to find a DDLES Glock mag lower on Armslist or GB at a price.

    Another option IF you can find one, is

  9. #39
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    I was wondering if I was to build a 14.5" ar15 and had to pick one muzzle device that I could attach a suppressor to later on down the road, what would be my best bet. Thanks in advance.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diazm50 View Post
    I was wondering if I was to build a 14.5" ar15 and had to pick one muzzle device that I could attach a suppressor to later on down the road, what would be my best bet. Thanks in advance.
    I am obviously no suppressor expert but in my reading and researching on things I might want to get... I would wait on the muzzle device as there are many and most are proprietary to a particular suppressor, or at very least could be.

    The whole section above (by someone else) about mounts is very valuable information. There are suppressors that just screw right on the end of your barrel... and then there are those that use a muzzle device and so on and so forth...

    But from what little I know and can tell those muzzle devices that serve as suppressor mounts are not generic in nature or design... so unless you already know which suppressor you want... then hold of on that.

    But what do I know? I am the FNG who knows very little about suppression... but I am reading a lot trying to get up to speed.

  11. #41
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    Suppressor Knowledge

    Some like silencerco offer different mounts you can swap on the suppressor itself that allow use on a few different muzzle devices...... AAC, YHM, Specwar , and Silencerco mounts can all run Silencerco cans.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by alamo5000 View Post
    I am obviously no suppressor expert but in my reading and researching on things I might want to get... I would wait on the muzzle device as there are many and most are proprietary to a particular suppressor, or at very least could be.

    The whole section above (by someone else) about mounts is very valuable information. There are suppressors that just screw right on the end of your barrel... and then there are those that use a muzzle device and so on and so forth...

    But from what little I know and can tell those muzzle devices that serve as suppressor mounts are not generic in nature or design... so unless you already know which suppressor you want... then hold of on that.

    But what do I know? I am the FNG who knows very little about suppression... but I am reading a lot trying to get up to speed.
    I know there's proprietary interfaces for certain manufacturers. The problem is going to be when I get this rifle built there will be no waiting to put a muzzle device on it. I'm not trying to build an SBR so it's getting pin and welded on. So really what I'm looking for is a good muzzle device that has the ability to thread a suppressor to that.

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