Proposed M855 Ban

[Canexpat]

Did a search and didn't find anything. Mods please delete if I'm out of line.

Trop Elite Equipment has provided an easy way make your voice heard & get a chance at some ammo.

http://wewillnotbackdown.com/?utm_so...d=%5BUNIQID%5D

[velocity2006]

I have seen it floating around FB quite a bit. Pretty ridiculous IMO, especially considering how mediocre M855 is.

[FortTom]

Other than "plinking" ammo, it's no big deal. It is NOT armor piercing, nor has it ever been. Guy's (Rangers) who were in Samolia said the stuff, due to lack of expansion, actually over penetrated the skinny's, poking neat little holes in them, and, barring hitting a vital organ, or hitting the spine etc., many said they saw skinny's with 3 or 4 holes in them, and still had no problem fighting. I think the myth has made the rounds of the forums so much, that some folks think it'll shoot holes through engine blocks and penetrate concrete walls. It's my understanding that it's origional purpose was to penetrate "body armor" equivalent to an old flak vest, or heavy clothing. I've got about 3 or 4 420 round boxes of the stuff. Reading the ATF's definition of "armor piercing" and what "green tip" really is, it doesn't meet ATF's definition of "armor piercing".

This whole mess in my opinion, has a great deal of fault with the shooting community. It's another case of poking the bear one too many times. Several years ago during the "assault rifle" ban, gun writers in magazines absolutely dumped on any "anti" for using the term "assault rifle", saying it was an obscure term used by the military only. There were no "assault weapons" in the civilian world. Now every item in a magazine is an "assault rifle", scope, knife, ballpoint pen, assault boots, assault ice cream, anything they can attach the term "assault" to make it sound more bad assed.

Some unscrupulous ammo sellers advertise M855 as being able to do everything from stop tornadoes to locomotives. And a lot of shooters perpetuated that myth in gun forums. I see it in some forums somewhat often.

Except for some Swedish M855 I got a good deal on it, most of it doesn't shoot worth a crap, in my rifles anyway. If you want to punch a hole in an oncoming vehicle full of Taliban, use an AR 10 up to a 50 BMG.

If the ATF doesn't back down on this, it's no big loss, in my opinion. Just hype on both parties behalf.

I can always wait until Cheap Bastards Eat Dirt's website advertises it for 1K a box, then sell mine for $800

Just my humble opinion. Although I would like some of the tungsten 7.62 stuff....

[Farva]

I understand why you say "its no big deal" because the ammo is trash pretty much. Also they say that they are banning it simply because it will pierce soft body armor typically worn by LEO's, which any of us know any rifle round will go through soft armor so that reasoning is null and void in my opinion. Also to me, even though the ammo isnt the greatest thing in the world, its simply the principle. If they take this ammo (insert name here) who is to say that if We the People dont say anything and let it happen then next they will try and ban this ammo (insert name here). So even though its not the best ammo im against banning it.

[Canexpat]

Exactly Farva, this is a big deal; no disrespect FortTom, I didn't articulate the point. The argument, for me is the effort to erode or further compel another restriction on gun rights. Here in Oregon there is a terrific gun rights group called Oregon Firearms Federation. They are "no compromise", OFF aggressively fights any action by the Oregon legislature (and nationally) to diminish gun rights; in some small way I apply this premise to the proposed action by the BAFTE.

[Stone]

Agreed, this is a big deal. We cannot even give them an inch on this one. This is how things go south real fast if people don't stand up and say "NO". Folks, we need to contact our legislatures on this, if we stand down here the proposed bans will keep coming until they dictate completely what ammo can and cant be used. What's next,m193,TSX,bonded ammo? This is a litmus test from the top down. Call your Senators and Congressman and leave a comment on the batfe site.

http://nagr.org/2015/ObamaBATFAmmoBan.aspx?pid=1b

[Tyrannosaur]

I've signed petitions and contacted my representatives (unfortunately one is that moron Schumer the other his lapdog Gillibrand).
If they can ban this it will open them up to ban more and more. 2015 is the year we need to wake up and start taking back what we let get stripped slowly and methodically from us for so long

[alamo5000]

I agree that it matters.

[GOST]

Like others have said M855 is a mediocre round and most rifle rounds will pierce soft armor. Just another case of not being able to enforce the laws they already have so go after law abiding citizens. Then all the politicians say we've made the world a better place. They should release the number of people killed in the US by M855 over the last decade, more people probably died from being constipated.

Now the liberals will get on YouTube to watch the M855 versus videos. When they see those they'll want to try to ban everything.

I honestly think that some liberal groups have a stock pile of M855 they need getting rid of. Every time a ban is proposed or a liberal is elected as president ammo prices go through the roof. I saw Bushmasters sold for $2500 during the last panic.

[GOST]

https://www.nraila.org/articles/2015...fle-ammunition

[Thompson]

I can personally vouch for the guys at Trop, as they are my local gun shop (although, at the rate of which they are growing and expanding, I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually turn into the next Rainier Arms, PSA, etc). Good bunch of guys that has been in business is '61. Great to the point that they also don't price gouge, like Cheap Bastards Eat Dirt as FT puts it.

To the point of the OP. I don't think anyone precisely articulated this - but a ban on M855 can be devastating. So I know we all can agree on the fact that M855 isn't as ballistically sound (as, say M193). But here's the problem, M193 can punch through at least Level 2 body armor (and possibly Level 3; it definitely will if you load the round hot enough from what I understand). And lets not forget, the whole guise of this proposed ban is to protect our LEO's from such a "deadly" round, hence the call to ban M855.

Okay, so lets say the ATF does ban M855. What comes next? I'll tell you what, M193 looks like a very suspecting round to go for next. It (technically) can be fired from a "pistol" (read: AR pistol), and it can penetrate body armor ...

So then what? They ban M193. And then what? What's going to be left?

See how this can be a big deal? (not specifically directed towards you FT, directed toward the mass ~ and the lurkers for that matter)

[Thompson]

On the topic of M855, one of my friends drafted up a concise letter for the ATF. I figured I'd share it with everyone here in case you are having trouble of what to write to the ATF or if you don't want to use the link provided for in the OP.

Their email address: APAComments AT atf DOT gov

Feel free to copy/edit to your heart's content.

Please note the bolded, red text!! I added that in case anyone wanted to throw that in their letter ... so if you aren't either of the two, you might want to delete that part.

________

To Whom It May Concern:

I am writing in response to the proposed ban of the common M855/SS109 5.56MM cartridge.
Like many others, I am concerned that such a ban is being proposed because the M855 cartridge has been
used by sports and competition shooters for many years without issue. This ammunition is no more lethal
than standard lead core 5.56MM ball ammunition. As a [Military Service Member/Law Enforcement
Officer] and law-abiding citizen, I find it disturbing that such an extremely common, cost efficient
cartridge is being unilaterally banned through bureaucratic action. The M855 is not designed as an “armor
piercing” round but rather as a standard, steel tipped ball cartridge and lacks the tungsten core that M955,
an actual armor piercing cartridge, possesses. Also, the M855 was never designed or intended to be fired
from a handgun but was rather designed to be fired from a M-16 rifle with a 20 inch barrel. I am equally
concerned that this proposed ban has nothing to do with the protection of law enforcement and is serving
to simply eliminate a cost effective ammunition source used for enjoying the AR-15 rifle platform among
law-abiding, tax paying American sportsmen and women. I must inform you that due to my concerns, I
will be contacting my elected representatives as well.

Very Respectfully,

[FortTom]

If each of you who "politely" pointed out that "it is a big deal" please re-read the first sentence of the paragraph. I was referring to the ammo, it's ineffectiveness and the fact that it was not (emphasis) armor piercing.
So before you berate me and educate me about how the ATF will gobble more and more of our rights, I think you should concentrate more on what you're reading than how you respond to it. NOWHERE in my post, did I say banning anything is not important to the shooting community. I just said it was shitty ammo, and the part of the shooting community who help perpetrate myths about this "train stopping ammo" were partly to blame for this continued legislation to begin with.

I don't need to be lectured on what organization is fighting for my rights. I have been contributing to the NRA and others for about as long as reached the age of 20 or so, and am currently a life member of the NRA, and donate to others as well.

I've been through many bans, as well as threatened bans. I've been fighting for gun rights while many on this forum were still shitting green in their diapers.

So, please, before your next orgy styled pile on of lecturing me on the dangers of confiscation and bans, please take the time to actually read the material that you intend to pontificate about.

[alamo5000]

If each of you who "politely" pointed out that "it is a big deal" please re-read the first sentence of the paragraph. I was referring to the ammo, it's ineffectiveness and the fact that it was not (emphasis) armor piercing.
So before you berate me and educate me about how the ATF will gobble more and more of our rights, I think you should concentrate more on what you're reading than how you respond to it. NOWHERE in my post, did I say banning anything is not important to the shooting community. I just said it was shitty ammo, and the part of the shooting community who help perpetrate myths about this "train stopping ammo" were partly to blame for this continued legislation to begin with.

I don't need to be lectured on what organization is fighting for my rights. I have been contributing to the NRA and others for about as long as reached the age of 20 or so, and am currently a life member of the NRA, and donate to others as well.

I've been through many bans, as well as threatened bans. I've been fighting for gun rights while many on this forum were still shitting green in their diapers.

So, please, before your next orgy styled pile on of lecturing me on the dangers of confiscation and bans, please take the time to actually read the material that you intend to pontificate about.

The snark is high with this one

[FortTom]

Just as it was meant to be.