Spike's Tactical 37mm Launcher Review (Comments)

[Army Chief]

Stick,

Just read the launcher review, which was up to your usual standards, and came away with a few questions; some admittedly better than others.

To begin with, I've always been of the mindset that a 40mm launcher was the infinitely more useful cousin of these 37mm offerings, while the latter were/are basically on par with an Airsoft alternative. Since I have no familiarity with their LE applications, I was ready to dismiss this launcher out of hand until I read your remarks. As a flare/gas/smoke platform, is there real utility here? I think the answer to that is a convincing yes, again, dependent upon one's larger situation.

Where I'm less well-informed is in this matter of available loadings, and/or the recipes for same. I believe that I would be safe in assuming that the 37mm crowd has worked up many lethal, as well as non-lethal, configurations -- and I would guess that the lethal variants put them at odds with NFA laws concerning Destructive Devices. If we confine our discussion to the non-lethal loads, then, it would seem that there are some legitimate points to be made.

One of the things that I've quietly wondered here is this: if there is an actual purpose for the stand-alone "chunker" model (as reviewed), would it be a stretch to suggest that an M4-mounted variant might also have some utility? I'm going to have to stick with LE applications for purposes of the question here, because I don't think this makes much sense in a typical civil/defensive situation. (Most of us don't keep a protective mask next to our bedroom carbine.) If so, then why wouldn't it make as much, or more, sense for an agency to just go with the original M79 or M203 in 40mm? The 37mm would seem to present fewer legal obstacles, but I'm not sure that is of any great concern to a letterhead purchaser.

Back to loadings. This one still leaves me scratching my head a bit. In part, it is because I'm not familiar with what's out there, and in part because I'm less than clear on the legal distinction between the 40mm rounds and the 37mm rounds -- aside from the obvious fact that the latter are generally considered "gas" rounds almost to the exclusion of anything else. Having seen guys go through the prohibitively expensive process of getting 40mm rounds for Title II M79s, I've generally taken the view that this is either a rich man's game, or pointless, or both. If the 37mm route offers some of those same advantages (albeit in non-lethal guise), without any of the legal hurdles, then I suppose that makes sense. The question is, are the 37mm loads widely available, and are they at all economical? You mentioned reloading possibilities, but this is all pretty foreign ground to me.

Finally, I'm a bit shaky on the legal classification of the reviewed launcher. Is it a Title I firearm, or something else entirely? Perhaps more to the point, does the typical LEO understand this distinction, or would a "gas gun" owner be subject to a lot of official scrutiny every time the launcher saw the light of day? If these are unlikely to be seen in private hands, or if that is in fact illegal, then the point is moot. I understand the underlying common sense issue in play here, in any case -- but I'm just not clear on (a) who has these, (b) who can have them, and (c) under what circumstances they can be legally used. While I think their tactical utility is much better suited to LE, I wouldn't rule something like this out for a post-Katrina type situation, even in private hands. (Thankfully, such a scenario seems very unlikely, even if we've walked that path once before.)

AC

[Army Chief]

As a point of quick clarification, I take it that the launcher, for legal classification purposes, is essentially just a "flare gun" -- I'm just not entirely sure where those fall under the letter of the law.

AC

[Stickman]

There is a wide variety of less lethal and lethal 40mm ammunition available. There is a wide variety of 37mm less lethal available. When I think 37mm, I think of whats loaded up into any of the tac trucks, which tend to be smoke, CS, bean bag direct impact, wood indirect impact, foam/ rubber direct impact and a few others.

The 37mm launchers fall under a non-firearm status from what I understand with no legal requirements in most areas. Flares, gas, and smoke are the primary things that can be legally fired.

The typical LEO isn't going to care if they are told that its a flare gun or smoke launcher. If the person using it is shooting flaming toilet paper at passing cars, there may be larger issues at stake....

[Army Chief]

So you anticipated my FTP load question then ... nice. LOL

AC

[Trav]

At my department our tactical teams have been using 37mm launchers for years. Last year our Sheriff decided to issue launchers to patrol supervisors for less lethal applications..

For some strange reason we were issued launchers in 40mm. Now dont get me wrong here I like 40 but it did strike me funny that I cruise around with a 40mm launcher but if my tac guys come to back me up they are only using 37mm.

The ammo we decided to deploy is a standard bean bag round which I would be willing to bet if you got hit with one you would not stop to say, lol that is only a 37mm so it didnt hurt as much...

As far as the average cop getting upset at seeing a spikes launcher in your POV, well the simple answer is it depends on a lot of factors... Like Stickman said, if you are thumping rounds creating a problem then beware no matter how legal the device. On the other hand if you do find yourself about to go to gitmo on a traffic stop because the officer thinks you are abu sayyaf (جماعة أبو سياف‎) or somone like that. After submitting gently so you dont get shot or tazed, ask for a supervisor. If you are careful you should get a Sgt. to come to your stop and get it resolved without the need for an international terrorism attorney. If you get really lucky they will all be wanting to hold it, the launcher I mean.

[Mr.Goodtimes]

from what i understand, the 37mm launcher is not rifled, thus, can not fire lethal rounds, atleast factory anyway. i have no idea what people have concocted in their garage.

I think that a 37mm launcher is a very niche weapon. the only real use i can see it doing is chucking CS gas grenades through windows etc...

I dont really see what a civilian would really need to own one of these for, aside form the fun factor. i dont ever see my self needing to do crowd control or thumping tear gas grenades into anybody windows.

[Trav]

Yes, well I really dont know what I am going to do with it. I think it looks really cool and honestly it is a toy for me. I have no intention of lobbing cs at anyone with it. Maybe some flare rounds on the 4th.

[ZDL]

What is the range on one of these things?

[Stickman]

It would depend on the munitions used. I've engaged at 50-75 yards, and been on the line with much further engagements than that with 37 and 40mm LL.

[ZDL]

So, a CS round at 200yds isn't realistic?

[CaptainRW]

from what i understand, the 37mm launcher is not rifled, thus, can not fire lethal rounds, at least factory anyway.

NOT TRUE!, the big difference between 40mm and 37mm launchers is the ammo that's factory available. Just because a 37 is not usually rifled and a 40mm tends to be, just means accuracy at range. Saying it's not lethal because it's not rifled, is like saying a 12GA shotgun is not lethal because it's a smoothbore and not rifled like a .308.. both are lethal, one at a farther range. You can get flares for your 12GA.. really easy.. Anti-Personal 12GA are not hard to get, but most places you will need to show some type of ID. 37mm is kinda the same, flares easy... Anti-Personal rounds, not so. You'd need to have the launcher serial numbered AND pay a transfer tax/fee of $200. With this you can legally make, buy or possess anti-personal rounds, as many as you'd like. That's not to include HE rounds.. each HE round would have to registered as a destructive devise (DD) and the $200 tax paid PER ROUND and each round would have the be serial numbered.
The reason you can own a 37mm easy and not a 40mm,(you can own, just not easy & has paperwork) is the availability of the anti-personnel rounds. None are made commercially or easily available. A 40mm HAS to be transferred as a DD.. Think of it like a 12ga flare pistol, you know, those red/orange ones they sell in the boating area of the sporting good store? Nothing needed to buy it.. buy a 12ga shotgun and there is paperwork.. same thing scaled up.
As long as you don't own the 37mm AND the anti-personal rounds, life is good.. you may own either, just not both, unless it's registered.

[CaptainRW]

So, a CS round at 200yds isn't realistic?

No, can be done with the right shell and reload. I have seem 260yds from mine with chalk/smoke rounds. same weight/payload to distance formula.