Let's build an extreme use AR-15 (UPDATE PAGE 8 & 9)

[TehLlama]

Would I be correct in assuming that it'll have a Car buffer in the case for times it will be fed known wimpy ammo/for troubleshooting shortstroking?

[Stickman]

I'm not worried about the buffers, if it becomes an issue, any of the guys can drop in a lighter version as needed.

[Stickman]

Fail Zero recently requested their BCGs back (2 had been supplied), but now is leaving one with us and requesting the other back. I'm unsure of the reasoning at this point, but if for some reason they suddenly need the other BCG back, we will drop their part and switch over to a LMT enhanced BCG.

[rob_s]

New Colt LE lower with .154" dia FCG pins and a BCM midlength 16" upper with the BCG from the Colt. Just stating that so that when I say "factory" below you know that if it's in the lower I mean Colt, and if in the upper I mean BCM

Handguard: Cavarms C8
Reason: Not much else available in midlength, and no use for rails

Sights: factory front, Troy rear
Reason: I'd most likely run the rear in the up position, but having it foldable allows for flexibility if others are shooting it, or if I want to add a magnifier

Optic: Aimpoint M4S
Reason: watching the demos with Freddie Blish toss the M4 all over creation and keep on working is very convincing. The T-1 might be a close second, but the M4 is really designed to be bomb-proof and I have come to like the 2 MOA dots.

Grip: Magpul MOE
Reason: Less moving parts than the MIAD. I do wish it had a built-in gapper, but I get that they want to sell you their trigger guard too so that's unlikely to happen. I'd just run the little rubber gapper anyway, just to rebel on the marketing scheme.

Stock: Magpul CTR
Reason: I was tempted to go for the MOE here too, but adding the friction lock may be a good thing, and having the added flexibility of the QD sling mount is certainly not a bad thing.

Barrel including length: factory BCM 16" midlength
Reason: I haven't bought in completely to the whole "lighter recoil pulse" and all that jazz, but I do know from personal experience that if I want to mount the light directly to the handguards I need the miglength.

LPK/Trigger: factory
Reason: why mess with perfection? I'd give the SSA consideration but until I had 10k rounds on one I wouldn't consider it truly "hard use".

Buffer: factory H (if it will run)
Reason: a midlength gas may not run with the H from the Colt lower, and if it doesn't I'd hav

BCG: factory Colt
Reason: best you can buy, no gimics, trinkets, funky profiles, silly coatings, etc.

Upper Rec: factory BCM
Reason: in this day and age the upper and lower are the least critical elements if they come from a quality company to begin with. billet is for toys.

Lower Rec: factory Colt
Reason: in this day and age the upper and lower are the least critical elements if they come from a quality company to begin with. billet is for toys.

Magazine: BCM D&H w/ magpul followers and ranger plates
Reason: they work, and work well, with no added bulk, no drop free issues, etc.

Lights/lasers/etc: Surefire X300 on handguards
Reason: Quick detach, can function as carbine light, pistol light, or even handheld. Reasonably priced, bright enough for 99% of use, etc.

Charging Handle: factory Colt
Reason: no reason to change

Flash Hider/Comp: factory BCM A2
Reason: the flash hider craze has gotten just silly, and gone well past silly frankly.

Misc Stuff rail covers etc: no real need
Reason: every part you add is one more part to break. simplicity is your friend.

[ryanm]

As far as BUIS, wouldn't the C4 Diopter or a POF front site with LMT rear be more durable?

I have yet to break a flip up, but figured if this thing is going to get dropped repeatedly that might be an issue.

Stick, if you still want a ZeroFail to test with, I have one coming from Rainier. I can have my dealer mail it to you. I'm curious to see how they stand up as well.

[medicine calf]

A few random thoughts ...


BUIS - Concur that the new Magpuls would be an ideal choice. Everyone seems to be interested in these, but the one wild card here seems to revolve around how they will hold up because of their polymer construction. Might as well put that to the test along with everything else.

AC

They've probably improved its durability since the prototype rear that appeared flopping up and down in their video.

Trigger - No contest. I'm a single stage guy myself, but am open to new ideas.

The transition from the stock milspec trigger to an SSA is seamless. The SSA's first stage is relatively short, and terminates in clearly defined positive stop at the second stage. The trigger on my 6920 has about 1/16" less over travel, than the length of my SSA's first stage.

For quick first shots, I cannot detect the first stage of the SSA.

[ryanm]

As far as the LPK, I've only seen DPMS, Bushmaster, and High Standard. I think there may be a partial Colt kit out there, but I'm not sure it's a complete LPK.

Is there a better/higher grade option available? I may buy one of the Colt kits that Brownells sells to see what's actually in the kit.

I know I can single buy the colt parts from Brownells, but most are out of stock as are all of their other parts kits.

Also, ACE SOCOM stocks are advertised as being 6x stronger than a standard A2 stock/buffer tube.

The POF Sniper stock looks very strong as well

Handguard: PRI Free Float Forearm
Reason: 1 piece tube, I hear they are hard to install correctly. Pinned gas block required if deviating from FSP, PRI block most likely candidate.

Sights: POF front, LMT rear
Reason: POF front is a solid chunk of iron, LMT rear--trying to avoid a flip up mechanims. Not sure if the FSP was a standardized requirement for this build.

Optic: Not sure on this one, to me if this is an added component and deviates from the Zero fail capability of the weapon system. If an Optic is required as part of the build, I'd have to say S&B short dot with a LaRue mount
Reason: Combat proven durability--still not something I would ever think about dropping down the stairs. If this thing is going to be run over by a truck, might as well stick a walmart optic on here to be destroyed.

Grip: Hogue pistol, Bobro short vertical fore-grip on PRI rail
Reason: Hogue is rubberized, Bobro is small and lessons the leverage placed on the rail during hard impacts. A longer grip increases the potential for failure at the mount when dropped.

Stock: ACE SOCOM short
Reason: Advertised as being the strongest on the market, very simplistic desgin

Barrel including length: 16" Noveske with Midlength gas sytem
Reason: Advertised as a very durable chrome lined barrel

LPK/Trigger: Geissele DMR Trigger with Colt Lower Parts
Reason: Geissele performance, Colt is probably best possible LP option that I am aware of

Buffer: Carbine or H
Reason: Depends on weapon peformance, not sure how much the FailZero BCG weighs.

BCG: FailZero, see if EXO really does what they claim
Upper Rec: FailZero, see above

Lower Rec: POF Gen III
Reason: Very solid construction

Magazine: Brownells USGI with magpul followers
Reason: Proven durability, if plastic breaks--its broken, when metal bends--it can be bent back.

Lights/lasers/etc:None
Reason: design to follow KISS concept

Charging Handle: PRI Gas Buster
Reason: Very solid construction

Flash Hider/Comp: AAC SPR4/1000
Reason: Possible use with their Can, not sure if thats part of the build req.

Misc Stuff rail covers etc:
Reason: Magpul Rail ladders for all unused rail surface to keep railes intact during hard testing

[Stickman]

As far as BUIS, wouldn't the C4 Diopter or a POF front site with LMT rear be more durable?

I have yet to break a flip up, but figured if this thing is going to get dropped repeatedly that might be an issue.

Stick, if you still want a ZeroFail to test with, I have one coming from Rainier. I can have my dealer mail it to you. I'm curious to see how they stand up as well.

Ryan,

I appreciate the offer, but the company did leave one with us, and it will be used for the bulk of this test.

[JustMatt]

Stick, I know your probably set on the Giessele trigger but I've seen some adds for Wilson Combat's drop in trigger and it looks to be pretty solid. Any chance of you guys using that one? Also, for a charging handle how about the Ambi charging handle from Armadynamics. Seems like it would be a perfect opportunity to put it to the test.

[federalist22]

I'm new here, but I throw this one out there:

Charging Handle: Anything with a Badger Tac Latch
Reason: nice to grab with left hand; add Norgon ambi-mag release for more left hand function that does not require you to take your right hand off the pistol grip (I use the Badger and Norgon components and I am also looking at adding a Wilson Combat Extended Oversize Bolt Release to make everything nice and accessible on that left side of the platform.

[Stickman]

F22,

Welcome to the board, and being new here has nothing do to with the quality of a post, so don't worry about that.

I've always liked the PRI latch over many of the longer variants. I know a few guys who have snagged gear on the larger latches, but I also have a SF friend who just came back from a tour using one, and he loved it.

[TehLlama]

Is there a chance of the newer PRI variant with the cuts on the lever, or sticking with the tried-and-true GB handle?

The Norgon ambi-catch is a great piece of gear, but it can be problematic for some right-handed users when it comes to getting caught on gear and surreptitiously releasing the magazine at the worst time.


::ETA:: most of the SAM-R and SPR's of ours I've seen do indeed have the norgon catch. My experience is limited to use on personal weapons, and a few experiences with it hanging up on different gear. The newer billet lowers seem designed to accommodate this, and are built up more around the left side of the catch, but on older lowers I'd see this potentially being an issue.

If indeed Stick's going to run the TDX-15 lower, then I'd say hell yes to the Norgon catch, since it's got a raised surface right around there, and since a stated intention is to be efficient for multiple users, this fits!

[federalist22]

F22,

Welcome to the board, and being new here has nothing do to with the quality of a post, so don't worry about that.

I've always liked the PRI latch over many of the longer variants. I know a few guys who have snagged gear on the larger latches, but I also have a SF friend who just came back from a tour using one, and he loved it.

I considered the PRI latch at one time, but I like the Badger. I can see how it could get snagged, but at the same time I like the size because it's easy to hook the side of your index finger on and pull, even if you have something in your hand or your hand is in a fist.

Any feedback on the Wilson bolt release?

[federalist22]

Is there a chance of the newer PRI variant with the cuts on the lever, or sticking with the tried-and-true GB handle?

The Norgon ambi-catch is a great piece of gear, but it can be problematic for some right-handed users when it comes to getting caught on gear and surreptitiously releasing the magazine at the worst time.

I can under stand that, but the Norgon does not stick out very much at all. I heard the Marines at Quantico are swapping most of their mag releases out for the Norgon now. I got mine from the smith that makes them here in Virginia.

[Stickman]

Here is a quick update, the last of the parts are expected to be here this week. Not everything was something I had laying around the stick compound, though I can say that I certainly wish that I did!


The plan currently is to shoot pictures of everything so we have images showing what is used, as opposed to just a straight forward list. While I think most people would be happy with the list, there is a group of people who will look at this and feel cheated if I don't (someone has nicely pointed that out to me already).