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  1. #16
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    I usually try to do my load development in cooler temps for a couple of reasons. One, hunting takes place during the cooler months, and two, less time spent waiting for the barrel to cool.

    As for this adventure, I'm not concerned about hunting, as I won't be hunting with a match bullet. I still haven't decided on what bullet to use for hunting. I've been using the Sierra 65 grain GK, but now that my AR has a 1:7 twist, I'm not limited as much as I was before.

    The 75 grain Swift bonded looks nice, as does the 70 grain Barnes TSX and Hornady GMX. The Nosler 64 grain bonded has a rounded nose, but for the shorter ranges the 5.56 will be used for on medium game, I don't think the BC will come into play. But, why not add the extra weight since I can.

    Overall, I really enjoy the load development process. It is always really nice to see things come together and get that better than match grade hunting or target round at half the cost.

  2. #17
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    Oh I agree it's fun to work up loads, just another extension of the hobby....I need a chrono of my own only got to use one of the gun ranges chrono twice...someone else shot it.....

    I have wanted to try out those 64 gr Nosler bonded also, check back in with what you work up

  3. #18
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    Extensive Factory Ammo Test Data with photos

    I shot a variety of factory ammo yesterday. The wind was 2-3 MPH, variable, 70 degrees, partly cloudy. In other words, it was a PERFECT day to shoot. Overall I am quite disappointed with the groups. I shot each ammo suppressed and suppressed, just to make sure the can wasn't affecting harmonics (shouldn't in a short/stubby 14.5 SPR profile barrel). Please note, my chronograph tripod took a dump on me, so I have no velocity readings. I was quite disappointed in this, but not enough to take a 30 minute trip into town to buy a cheap new one from Wally World. I tried to stack 5 gal buckets in front of the bench to gather a reading, but I couldn't get any readings. Now on to the photos:

    First, the rifle. It started life as Windham Weaponry stock AR. The only stock parts on it now are the receiver set, the BCG, safety, receiver extension and buffer/spring. It has a Geissele G2S trigger and Mk 4 rail. The barrel is a Ballistic's Advantage 14.5" SPR profile nitrided barrel in 5.56mm with a Geissele Super Gas Block and Daniel Defense mid length gas tube. The muzzle device is SilencerCo ASR flash hider which mounts my SWR marked Specwar 556 (made after the acquisition but right before they dropped the SWR name). The scope is a Burris 4-16 Signature Series mounted in an American Defense Recon-X 1" scope mount. I verified the mount was secure and the rings were torqued to 30 inch pounds, per American Defense's instructions, with a Fat Max. The receiver was painted with Brownells Alumahyde II in OD green. The magwell sticker is from US Night Vision and was a leftover freebie from 2014 shot show that I won on their FB page two years ago. It has held on amazing well. The Alumahyde II is holding up great as well.


    My dad and I set this range up. He build the bench and it is beyond sturdy. I normally like to shoot prone, but a recent vasectomy is preventing me from laying on my stomach for obvious reasons. And, the bench was recently built and this is my first time using it. He did a great job. The far stump is exactly 100 yards as verified by a Nikon rangefinder. I shot off homemade sandbags (filled with beanie baggie guts from the hobby shop) unless otherwise noted. The bipod I used for a few of the shots is a cheap Caldwell that I bought years ago back when I didn't know any better.


    I tried to get a variety of ammo. I only had two match offerings, Hornady Custom Match, 75 grain BTHP and Federal Gold Medal Match, 69 grain SMK. The other loadings I brought along were American Eagle 55 and 62 grain FMJ, Winchester 55 grain FMJ and LC M855. (I didn't shoot the Winchester 62 grain stuff pictured as its the same as the Lake City M855 I already had loaded in a mag). I also shot my hand loaded 65 grain GK, loaded with 25.5 grains of H335 in a Remington case with a CCI 400 primer. This load was right at 1" in my Windham 1:9 twist barrel. The rounds were single loaded with the exception of the ball ammo, which I loaded 5 at a time in the pictured 10 round magazine. Between ammo changes I cleaned the bore with Hoppes #9 and an Otis kit. I would run the Hoppes soaked brush through 5 times and then run 3 dry patches through. Not the cleanest, but it was clean enough to get the old powder residue out of the barrel. Only on one shot group did I shoot with a hot barrel. All other times, I let the barrel rest between groups till it was ambient temp. Even when I shot the barrel "hot," I had been shooting suppressed and it wasn't even hot enough to show any mirage over the suppressor, so hot is a relative term here.


    I started with the Hornady 75 grain Custom Match ammo. The results were beyond pitiful as seen below. The suppressed group was shot with the bipod. I quickly realized I didn't like the bipod and took it off for the unsuppressed shot group. Suppressed with bipod resulted in a 2.915" 3 shot string. Unsuppressed off sandbags resulted in a 2.275" 4 shot "group." Unimpressive to say the least.


    I later shot the Hornady again with a warm barrel. I note "hot" on the target, but it should be noted the shots following up to the "hot" shot were all suppressed. No mirage was seen from the suppressor. This was shot off a sandbag and resulted in 3.825" three shot group.


    Second shots were taken with the Federal Gold Medal Match with the 69 grain SMK. I was able to get one BARELY sub MOA 3 shot group unsuprressed at 0.927" although I never could duplicate these results. I also stopped a 3 shots because I was certain a 4th or 5th shot wold open the groups up beyond 1 inch. Suppressed I came in at 1.332" for a 4 shot group.


    I later shot the Federal GMM suppressed again and got an odd occurrence. Note that I numbered the shot order on this group. Ignore the group on the left for now. I'll get to that later.


    That's it for the match loadings. Those were the only two I could find locally, even then, I could only get one box of the GMM, and I paid a premium for it too.

    Next I shot Federal 62 grain FMJ. See the above photo for the suppressed shot group. There is one shot off paper far left (about an inch off). I'm not even trying to measure this group. It is pitiful, even for American Eagle bulk ammo. I then shot another group suppressed with the 62 grain FMJ. This 7 shot group measured 2.4" exactly. Interesting to see that I had two different sub groups where there's just an elongated hole where two rounds passed through, but these sub groups are 1.766" apart. Pitiful. When I shot unsuppressed, the five shot group was immeasurable once I took the target off the plyboard since two of the shots were off paper to the right, but just barely. The three on paper measured 2.951" which is still pretty awful.


    I then tried out the 55 grain American Eagle FMJ loading. All shots landed on paper. Suppressed measured in at 2.656" and unsuppressed at 2.613".


    I then tried out some Lake City surplus M855 ball ammo. I shot this suppressed with the bipod again. 10 shot group measured in at 3.875". Even if I throw out the two lowest shots as "flyers" (they weren't) I still get a group of 2.124".


    For those that have read the whole post, this is where I shot the "hot" barrel group of the Hornady 75 grain match again.

    Lastly, I shot some of my own handloads. The load data is in the first of this post, so I won't rehash it. This loading shot right at 1" with my 1:9 twist Windham barrel (that I'm starting to wish I had of kept). The five shot group came in at 2.308".


    Overall, I've spent over $100 on ammo to test this barrel. I have another $100 order coming in for 4 different types of match ammo from Midway (77 Fed GMM, 68 grain Hornady, 69 Nosler and 77 Nosler). I'm not sure if I want to contact Ballistic Advantage and see what they'll do for me, or keep shooting my money up and see if I can get this barrel to shoot. To put it bluntly, I'm not sure I want a barrel that won't shoot decent bulk under a 2" group consistently.

  4. #19
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    Oh, and before anyone says "its the shooter," I AM capable of shooting very well. Here's an old photo of a load I worked up with the Sierra 65 GK's in an old 1:9 twist barrel. I didn't use this load to hunt with because the velocity was rather slow and I chose the ~1" loading at a higher velocity to hunt with (the 25.5 grain load). The group measured at 0.763" for 5 shots, again, single loaded on bags.

  5. #20
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    It sounds like you know what you are doing and have more confidence in your shooting than I have in mine, so I'm not going to give you any shooting or build suggestions.

    I say give Ballistic Advantage a call on Monday and just describe the performance you are seeing and hear what they have to say. They might have some ideas on which ammo performs best out of that barrel. They have a sub-MOA guarantee w/ match ammo so find out which ammo they trust for proof of performance.

  6. #21
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    Looks to me like 69s are definitely a potential winner. Just for kicks see if you can find a 1lb can of varget and get your velocity and charge right and you will be on it I think. I would develop the load unsupressed and then after you get consistent results put the can back on and take notes of poi shift.

  7. #22
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    Humm

    I'd say try some varget , reloader 15, or tac with some smk 69 & 77 gr smk/tmk

    When I was working up loads on a old ra 18" went from 748 to h335 to aa2230 then varget and with 69gr smk'S holy crap..me, mil spec trigger and off a bipod and rear bag I was under a Moa everytime

  8. #23
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    It sucks, but I attribute the reloading components used during load development to be a sunk cost. Once you find the load and use it for 1000s of rounds later, the up front "loss" is spread out.

    The last two barrels I've worked up loads for have been Rainier Match barrels in 16" and 18" flavors. I guess I got lucky with the 16", because out of the 10 test charges I had loaded 10 rounds for, the second or third was the magic number and it was a tiny group, so small I thought 3 of 5 went off target.

    With my 18" barrel, I wasn't so lucky. I was at the point where I thought I had a bad barrel. I shot my first 10 charges/100 rounds with no avail. Had to go home, check my numbers, my components, my rifle, my scope, etc and load more ammo. I was pretty sure other people on the range thought I was some poser buying all the expensive crap (suppressor, pricey parts etc) who couldn't shoot worth a damn because it was horrible. Even factory Black Hills (68gr) shot like crap in it (but it shot bad in 4 other rifles I later tested). I was seriously planning on calling Rainier if my second outing went as bad as the first. It didn't. I hit the magic number and those groups went from bird shot patterns to lights out with a .1 or .2gr difference in a previous charge...can't remember without looking at my notes.

    I know it sucks but I really doubt it's the barrel. Keep at it, don't get frustrated and throw the fundamentals out the window (one group up there looked like a breathing issue and another looked like sight picture) and keep at it. If you get frustrated out there, your shooting will suffer and you'll be wasting time and ammo. Keep at it! Can't wait to see that first tight group photo

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Former11B View Post
    I hit the magic number and those groups went from bird shot patterns to lights out with a .1 or .2gr difference in a previous charge...
    Same experience here. Those little .1 grain charge differences made a big difference.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Former11B View Post

    I know it sucks but I really doubt it's the barrel. Keep at it, don't get frustrated and throw the fundamentals out the window (one group up there looked like a breathing issue and another looked like sight picture) and keep at it. If you get frustrated out there, your shooting will suffer and you'll be wasting time and ammo. Keep at it! Can't wait to see that first tight group photo
    The barrel should be capable of more than this with factory ammo. While I'm sure I can find a loading that it will like, I also want a barrel that will shoot decently with factory. And yes, I am getting frustrated.

  11. #26
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    Personally I think your scope is moving. But that's just a guess.

  12. #27
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    I called Ballistic Advantage earlier and was asked to re-shoot without the suppressor or muzzle device installed. I shot a 5 and shot group with the Hornady 75 grain ammo. They measured 2.13" and 2.754" respectively. I also tried Hornady 68 grain Match ammo that came on the big brown truck earlier today. That 5 shot group measured 2.495".

    I'm sending an email with all this info, and photos, to Kyle at Ballistic Advantage now.

  13. #28
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    Got a call from Clint Hanson. He asked me to send my entire upper in so he could properly diagnose the issue. I'll keep you updated.

  14. #29
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    Please do. Curious to see what comes out of it. Either way, I'd say you're one step closer to resolution. If they're asking for the barrel and upper, clearly they want to make it right by you, and that's the kind of place I like doing business with.

  15. #30
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    I'm a factory ammo guy. I have finally settled on 75gr Gold Dot for my 16.1" DDM4. It's a .gov profile, chrome-lined barrel, and I am getting around 1.5 MOA 10-shot groups with boring regularity using a 4X Nightforce. Magazine fed off a sand-bag.

    If your optic is correctly mounted, and you verified the scope does not have any gremlins, something is wrong with your upper, IMO. That barrel SHOULD do MUCH better, and your previous groups indicate that you should easily observe it.
    Last edited by JGifford; 9 March 2016 at 18:17.

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