Stocks and Buffer Tubes

[alamo5000]

I would like to see if any of you guys have any input on something I have been wondering about.

It's pretty much two part... the first part is the actual buffer tube. Are those all generally standard length? Mine is mil spec from BCM. Or are some technically shorter than others? I am talking actual length once installed... and if they do have variations how does that effect the buffer spring (or anything else)?

The second part is about stocks. On my SBR I am using a MFT Minimalist stock. I measured the height of it and it's about 5.5". As an example though I see the strike industries viper stock... they have the height listed as 4.42".

http://www.strikeindustries.com/shop...l#.V1s31rsrLIX

That is just one example of variations that I am talking about in regards to stocks.

I am asking not because I will change anything (yet) but because I want to learn more and explore options. Basically the size and shape of the stock (as well as the length of the buffer tube) is going to have an effect on how you present the firearm. Someone tall and someone short will have two different 'needs' so to speak other than just the sheer telescoping action. Plus if you are (or in my case aren't) using body armor or whatever all of that comes into play.

I am 5-11 and fairly broad shouldered and more of a stocky build. I don't have big long orangutan arms either. It's not that I am not 100% satisfied with what I have now on my SBR, but I am wondering about specific options that could potentially improve on a specific feel tailor made for me.

I know they have the PDW stocks and all that but that's not an option right now. With shotguns you have length of pull, cast on, cast off, and those things... but for a standard AR what are some options that I might have to accomplish the goal? Also I might mention that weight is not the primary concern.

That also brings up not only dimensions of the stock(s) but also what is 'more correct' as far as presentation is concerned. Losing an inch off of the height might make a big difference for me when it comes to shouldering the weapon for example.

Any ideas of stocks that I can take a closer look at?

[alamo5000]

Here is a prime example (one that Distribmedic just mentioned):

https://www.magpul.com/products/moe-...stock-mil-spec

The height is 4.2" and the LOP is 10.5" collapsed.

On the Strike Industries one I pointed out earlier...

http://www.strikeindustries.com/shop...l#.V1s-ILsrLIX

It's 4.42" in height but the LOP is 9.25 collapsed...

Those are the kinds of things I am looking for... options like that...

[alamo5000]

The one I have now is almost on the button 7" long and it is about 5.5" tall... so it's all in relation to that.

[gatordev]

For me, the type/kind of stock goes back to the intended use of of the weapon. I have two basic "go-to" setups for specific uses.

First use is the "fighting carbine." This is the competition/plinking/training gun setup that is a) comfortable and b) does not hinder normal use with "cutting edge design." Generally this ends up being a B5 SOPMOD (or Magpul STR). The SOPMOD (or STR) may not be "perfect" for everyone, but that basic shape and size is what works for me.

The second use is on my precision guns. Because I do have long orangutan arms, I like to maximize my LOP for prone work, when necessary. This allows me to collapse the stock for other positions as necessary. At the end of the day, I keep coming back to the Magpul ACS for my precision guns, but similar LOP is 75% of the equation. What I also like about the ACS (or other Magpul stocks) is that they have built a shelf on the lower, rear portion of the stock, so if you're working off of a bag or your fist, it gives you a place to put it without the slant of the bottom of the stock cutting into my hand. The SOPMOD is shorter, but will still work, but I find it's more uncomfortable on my support hand when prone.

I don't mean these choices to be definitive, but just what I've found to work for me. Plus I always seem to find "yet another" ACS that I had previously bought that manages to make it on to whatever "next" precision gun comes by my way.

[alamo5000]

For me, the type/kind of stock goes back to the intended use of of the weapon. I have two basic "go-to" setups for specific uses.

First use is the "fighting carbine." This is the competition/plinking/training gun setup that is a) comfortable and b) does not hinder normal use with "cutting edge design." Generally this ends up being a B5 SOPMOD (or Magpul STR). The SOPMOD (or STR) may not be "perfect" for everyone, but that basic shape and size is what works for me.

The second use is on my precision guns. Because I do have long orangutan arms, I like to maximize my LOP for prone work, when necessary. This allows me to collapse the stock for other positions as necessary. At the end of the day, I keep coming back to the Magpul ACS for my precision guns, but similar LOP is 75% of the equation. What I also like about the ACS (or other Magpul stocks) is that they have built a shelf on the lower, rear portion of the stock, so if you're working off of a bag or your fist, it gives you a place to put it without the slant of the bottom of the stock cutting into my hand. The SOPMOD is shorter, but will still work, but I find it's more uncomfortable on my support hand when prone.

I don't mean these choices to be definitive, but just what I've found to work for me. Plus I always seem to find "yet another" ACS that I had previously bought that manages to make it on to whatever "next" precision gun comes by my way.

I am using a Magpul ACS on my precision gun and it's wonderful. It just seems right for the job. I agree big time on that.

For the SBR though I am still going to keep an open mind for options. Like I said... the one I have now is great, but I wonder if there will be anything better that could potentially fit me better.

EDIT: I am specifically talking or rather asking about stocks for an SBR.

[Joelski]

Being freakishly tall, with ape arms, and sporting some spinal fusions, I can't crank my head over to make a cheek weld on many stocks, so I shoulder the tip of the stock higher than most. I don't make use of the stiffarm fore grip, rather I pull my shock out to #3 or 4, and keep my elbows tucked close to my body.

I don't think you can get a longer tube (although you could have one fabricated with a spacer to keep the spring at spec length, and still get increased length of pull).

[alamo5000]

Being freakishly tall, with ape arms, and sporting some spinal fusions, I can't crank my head over to make a cheek weld on many stocks, so I shoulder the tip of the stock higher than most. I don't make use of the stiffarm fore grip, rather I pull my shock out to #3 or 4, and keep my elbows tucked close to my body.

I don't think you can get a longer tube (although you could have one fabricated with a spacer to keep the spring at spec length, and still get increased length of pull).

On the tube it may or may not be an option to get a slightly shorter one but even if not I wonder how the different shapes and sizes of stocks will help with presentation. I am thinking of something that might have a better seating on my shoulder while having a natural shoulder to eye combination.

What I have works just fine and is pretty good but if I can find a different option I might give it a go. Or at very least go to a gun show and see if I can find a stock like that and try it first.

[Jerry R]

Part 1 - receiver extension length:

The only two I have personal knowledge of would be:
a) Mil-Spec - 7.25 inches long
b) VLTOR A5 (Mil-Spec diameter and thread) 7 15/16 long

Post on arfcom shows an installled PSA receiver extension at one inch shorter than mil-spec.

So it appears there are several receiver extension lengths available, but most people selling them only state mil-spec or commercial, not the overall length.

A note on the VLTOR A5 buffer tube - most mil-spec carbine stocks will not completely collapse on the tube. Friend uses MagPul MOE Commercial stocks on his A5 setups, and found they have minimal play and will actually collapse fully.

On part 2 - I can't seem to settle on one. I have three E-Mod, one I-Mod, one Rogers Super Stock, a Battle Link Minimalist, an LWRCi Compact (not the ultra-compact), a B5 SOPMOD, a MagPul ACS, and a KAK Bladetech on the pistol. My knuckles drag the ground if I'm not careful, and I have been fortunate enough to be able to work with just about any stock I pick up. The eclectic selection is totally based upon scientific research such as purposeful use / just testing / wow, that looks cool, let's try one / etc.

Since they all seem to work, I have not made all my children look alike.

[Joelski]

Alamo, if what we're talking about is similar, your MFT stock is decent for shouldering high, with the turned under tip. The thing that lets us get away with imperfect technique is the relative lack of recoil. Here's one of the others I've found (But have yet to try), that let the shooter shoulder the weapon higher:

The Strike Industries Viper:

[Joelski]

D'oh!

[jbjh]

On the tube it may or may not be an option to get a slightly shorter one but even if not I wonder how the different shapes and sizes of stocks will help with presentation. I am thinking of something that might have a better seating on my shoulder while having a natural shoulder to eye combination.

What I have works just fine and is pretty good but if I can find a different option I might give it a go. Or at very least go to a gun show and see if I can find a stock like that and try it first.

If you plan on shooting high-shoulder, have you tried the Duostock?
https://www.americandefensemanufactu...w/product/210/

I remember trying one out in a store (didn't get to shoot with it), and it felt decent. It's not the prettiest thing, but it does its job.

[Joelski]

That's the other stock I was hunting for my reply! Looks comfy for prone too, but it sure ain't pretty!

[BoilerUp]

For adjustable stock buffer tubes, I think there is only standard and A5 lenghts. I've always assumed "mil-spec" and "commercial" are the same length, but have read at least one comment on the interwebs that suggests some commercial tubs are a bit longer. For fixed stock buffer tubes, there is also the "entry length", which is shorter than a standard rifle buffer tube and closer in length to a carbine rec'r extension. The UBR, I believe, uses this entry length tube and ACE makes a skeleton stock in this length.

Personally, the three main things I look at on stocks are 1) cheek weld, 2) butt plate comfort, and 3) weight. I like stocks with SOPMOD style geometry for good cheek weld. I'm not sure I could describe what I like in the butt plate, it's just making sure it's comfortable and maintains a good "purchase". And in general, I make ounces justify themselves on every build. With the BCM Gunfighter, I also realized that the length of the stock itself can affect cheek weld. For my big noggin, the Gunfighter stock is just a tad too short for me when shooting prone. So, I use a B5 SOPMOD Bravo on my SPR build and moved my Gunfighter to my SHTF carbine as I think it's a great compact stock for CQB-type of shooting. I have an MFT Minimalist and find it decent all around, too. Cheek weld isn't my favorite, but acceptable for me. My wife likes the way it fits her shoulder pocket better than anything else I have, for whatever that's worth (she's 5'7" and fairly broad shoulder for a woman, I'm 6'5" and broad shouldered).

[Joelski]

UBR uses a standard DPMS-style extension. It's 7.25" OAL.

[BoilerUp]

UBR uses a standard DPMS-style extension. It's 7.25" OAL.

I don't have one, but according to Magpul's website:

UBR Collapsible Stock
Weight: 23.5 oz.
Weight, w/Entry Receiver Extension: 26.1 oz.
Length, Stock: 8.0-11.4 in.
LOP Adjustment: 7-Position (0.56"/position)
LOP Adjustment Range: 3.4 in.
LOP, M4 Collapsed: ~11.1 in.
LOP, M4 Extended: ~14.5 in.

*The UBR includes the necessary Entry-Length Receiver Extension tube and all mounting hardware. An M4 carbine buffer and spring are required for use with the UBR and are not included.
7.62x51 ARs may require the use of a custom short buffer and spring.

https://www.magpul.com/products/ubr-collapsible-stock