S&W M&P 15-22 (pic heavy) Serious Practice Tool – or just a fun plinker?

[Jerry R]

Sorry Guys, should have posted this with the original.

First off, the pistol grip bolt is not messed up. I just needed to find the proper size Allen Wrench that was long enough to easily reach it. The size is 3/16 inch and it takes a long Allen to reach it. But it came off easily. My Bad

Now, the charging handle issue. First picture is the bolt assembly with the charging handle in the "normal" position that it would be in the upper receiver.



Next is an upside down shot of the upper receiver with the charging handle almost in the latched position. You can see the groove it rides in stops way short of a full length charging handle. Close up is a little washed out, but shows the groove better.





The last picture is a side-by-side with a standard AR's charging handle to show the difference in length.



As you can see, the 15-22 charging handle is molded from a single piece of plastic with a pinned latch. Not a lot of meat there and I do not believe it would stand up to even moderate abuse. I will probably try to order a spare from S&W.

Hope this update helps.

[Optimus Prime]

BCM needs to get to work on an after-market one for it. I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

[Jerry R]

Optimus,
I thought so too. I sent them an email - correspondence below and it is a cut/paste from an email thread so start at the bottom and read "up" please:

Quote:

It probably would.

The SW 22 cal is the hottest AR15 on the market right now.


From: Ragan, Jerry
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 12:54 PM
To: Bravo Company USA, Inc.
Subject: RE: Customer Feedback for www.BravoCompanyMFG.com

Thanks for the speedy response.
If you ever do, let me know. I really think it would be a hot seller.

Best Regards,

Jerry

Jerry W. Ragan, MCP
Consulting Systems Engineer

From: Bravo Company USA, Inc.
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 1:53 PM
To: Ragan, Jerry
Subject: RE: Customer Feedback for www.BravoCompanyMFG.com

Hi Jerry,

No plans at this time,

Thanks for contacting us,

From: Ragan, Jerry
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 12:52 PM
To: bravocompany@wi.rr.com
Subject: Customer Feedback for www.BravoCompanyMFG.com

Hi,

Any chance you will be manufacturing a charging handle for the Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22? The plastic charging handle it comes with will not stand even moderate abuse in a practice or drill environment.

Best Regards,

Jerry

Jerry W. Ragan, MCP
Consulting Systems Engineer

[Optimus Prime]

Hmm... Might need to throw an email their way as well. It sounds like they just need a little more push in the right direction.

[Jerry R]

The AimShot HGM2 was purchased and installed along with a VFG that I had in the spare parts box. I think this will be the test rig for now.

I like the AimShot. Television shaped hood, aluminum, claims "parallax free" and able to take recoil from 12 Gauge, etc. It is a multi-reticule device with two circle/dot reticules, along with two different sized single dots. That provides me with features which are pretty close to what I am used to with the EOTech.

As to the parallax free claim, it actually seemed minimal at basement distances of ten to fifteen feet. Uses an allen wrench to adjust POI, so I set the dot on top of the iron sight post. We'll see how it sights in. There is also a small screw the instructions say to tighten after zeroing to lock the settings.

I'm not sure how I am going to like a standard co-witness when I am used to a lower third with the 516; we'll just see how that goes. I really don't want to invest in a set of folding BUIS; but may have to.

More pictures.

[Optimus Prime]

What's the going price on that optic? (Or a link would work...)

I need something EOTech-ish for mine as well, and dropping a $450 optic on the rifle I paid $300 for just isn't doing it for me.

[Jerry R]

Amazon.com has them for $123.39 plus shipping. I just checked and they claim to have two left in stock.

Everywhere else I looked, they are $139.99 plus shipping.

The Amazon price would have been in the mid $130 range after shipping. So I contacted the factory (just a few miles away) and they put me in touch with a local seller that let me have it for $140 cash and that included tax.

I like to spend my money where I live if the price is even close. I may need him again some day.

http://www.aimshot.com/

is a link to their web site, and click "Dealer Information" to see who sells them.

They make two models. One is the HGMD which has four different sized dots. The one I purchased is the HGM2 which has four different reticules; two are circle/dot type.

[piggly_wiggly]

Anytime you have a piece of equipment that mimics your fire-controls, reduces your training cost, increases your range options, helps with fundamentals of marksmanship, and encourages more shooting, it should be considered as a potential serious training tool. To argue otherwise, would be like saying dry-fire is useless.

This MP-15/22 and other 22 conversion kits are like dry-fire plus- all the training benefits, with feedback downrange, you don't have to reset the trigger each time, and a lot more fun. We just got 25 of them for the program I instruct for- aside from ammunition issues (our current inventory only has standard velocity, waxy eloy target rounds) and the initial funny looks from our shooters, I expect to see real dividends over the course or our first year training with them.

Here are several great points on training with a 22 pistol that directly translate to this platform- pulled from this article at pistol-training.com:

Skills you can work on effectively with a .22 equivalent to your normal pistol:

* marksmanship
* strong- and weak-hand only shooting
* draw stroke
* reloads
* transitions
* judgmental shooting
* shooting on the move… With SOM, the line between good .22 training and bad .22 training is definitely easy to cross. But like transition drills, SOM training can benefit from a .22 in terms of learning how to move your feet and position your body for a stable shooting platform on the move.

Skills you should not practice with a .22lr handgun:

* recoil management
* sight tracking
* rapid multiple shots on a single target
* failure drills

[Defender3]

Anytime you have a piece of equipment that mimics your fire-controls, reduces your training cost, increases your range options, helps with fundamentals of marksmanship, and encourages more shooting, it should be considered as a potential serious training tool. To argue otherwise, would be like saying dry-fire is useless.

+1. I've tried to set up my 15-22 as close to my AR platform as possible so I can practice with the same kit. Some TTPs don't translate well, like trying clear a double feed, so I don't focus on those in my training. Another shortcoming is that I'm limited (for now) to an indoor range where I can only fire the 15-22. Hopefully when the weather clears I can get out and follow the 15-22 drills with the real thing. BTW-I'm in NO way implying I'm high speed, I'd just like to be less drag. I'm also trying new equipment and new TTPs to refine my skills.

My 15-22:



Here's someone we all know using a 15-22 (SBR no less). I'd luv to hear the circumstances behind this picture, note the high-speed ziplock rear QD mount.

[Optimus Prime]

Another shortcoming is that I'm limited (for now) to an indoor range where I can only fire the 15-22. Hopefully when the weather clears I can get out and follow the 15-22 drills with the real thing.

Poor excuse. Here's the first range trip with mine last month. Just gotta dress right.

Just busting your balls.

[Defender3]

Poor excuse. Here's the first range trip with mine last month. Just gotta dress right.

Just busting your balls.

Okay - I was going to break your balls, but I don't want to hijack the thread.

[Jerry R]

Defender3,

Great input, nice pics --- thanks for sharing. I like the "MagPul Shirt" with the 15-22. Makes me feel a lot better about the direction I went.

Edit - looks like the guy next to him is about to shoot himself in the foot - literally !!

[Defender3]

Defender3,

Edit - looks like the guy next to him is about to shoot himself in the foot - literally !!

At least his trigger finger is where it should be!

[SDDuc996]

I'm waiting for a mag to fall out.

[Hackmslash]

I'm entering this thread very late, but wanted to put some very nice words out about the S&W M&P 15-22. I bought an olive green version from Academy Sporting Goods for $459 this past weekend and took it straight to the indoor range. I have a Bushmaster 223 Superlight Carbine and was really interested in the M&P 15-22 for fun plinking and possibly a practice tool. I have to agree with all the comments I have read in this thread about the pros & cons of using this gun as a practice tool, but I have to say that the gun was freaking fun to shoot. I fired about 200 rounds and only had one FTF, but it was a CCI round that was probably over 14 years old. After giving the round time to react to a delayed fire, I ejected the round to see that it should have gone off, as the indentation on the rim was complete and sufficient. Gun didn't fail, but the old round did.

I've purchased a couple of extra magazines from cheaper-than-dirt.com (who delivered the shipment in to my house on Wednesday when I placed my order Monday morning! - Excellent job and excellent prices!) as well as an inexpensive 5-position forearm grip (UTG Model 4 Vertical Foregrip Black Ergonomic Ambidextrous 5-position Foldable Foregrip Picatinny RB-FGRP170B). The magazines were less than $16 each and the forearm grip was $15. The grip does fit a bit loosely on the rail, but for $15 it very nice.

The olive green version I purchased looked very similar to the one posted in this thread (great photos btw), but the barrel, upper, and lower receiver are olive green and the 5-position butt, the pistol grip, magazine, and front and rear sights are black. (Apparently this version is a limited run of the gun, and it was about $40 cheaper than the version with the raised AR sight/handle, so I was very proud to become its owner.) The indented lettering on the receivers are filled with white paint, so the gun has a very sweet look in my opinion. The added forearm grip was black, so all the attachments match for a very nice look. I added a Bushel red-dot sight that came with my Bushmaster (on which I put a tatical 1x->4x scope) on the M&P (black of course) which worked very well when sighted in at the range.

The gun does disassemble like an AR, and was very easy to clean and reassemble. The magazines are S&W Proprietary, but also very cheap. The magazines also disassembled and reassembled very easily for cleaning. Nice engineering work here S&W. I read reviews about the Colt version of a 15-22, but was dissappointed with that gun when I saw that it was basically an inexpensive (but proven) typical 22lr design internally. Heck one should probably just buy the Mossberg 15-22 for $250 in my opinion if you are considering the Colt version.

I obviously want to run many more rounds though the gun, as I've barely spent more than $5 on ammo so far. However, at this point, I highly recommend you snatch one of these babies up.