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  1. #1
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    ATF Issues Cease & Desist for Honey Badger Pistol

    https://mailchi.mp/liveqordie.com/at...Jux84wCRz_7ZGk


    Dear Customer:

    On August 3rd, 2020, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (“ATF”) issued Q® a formal Cease & Desist letter, notifying us that ATF has taken the position that the Q Honey Badger Pistol is a short-barreled rifle (“SBR”) regulated under the National Firearms Act (“NFA”). In response, Q has ceased all production of the Honey Badger Pistol, and submitted a comprehensive letter to ATF and the Department of Justice (“DOJ”) stating why we disagree with this classification[1]. Additionally, we have provided recommendations on how to address the firearms already in circulation. Q is seeking solutions that best protect you, the individual, and Q’s distribution network from falling out of compliance with ATF regulations, and federal law. At this time, Q has not received any definitive guidance from the ATF.

    In the meantime, Q encourages possessors of the Honey Badger Pistol to take these proactive measures until a resolution is reached between Q and ATF.

    Complete one of the following:

    Remove the barreled upper receiver from the lower receiver and dedicate it as a replacement
    for another AR-style pistol or registered short-barreled rifle; or

    If you do not possess another AR-style pistol or registered short-barreled rifle, remove the barreled upper receiver from the lower receiver and temporarily transfer it out of your possession by, for example, transferring it to the dominion and control of another individual; and

    Once the previous step is completed, you may file an ATF Form 1 to register the lower receiver as a short-barreled rifle. Upon Form 1 approval, the firearm may be reassembled.

    Failure to complete option a or option b could result in prosecution and is subject to a $10,000.00 fine and up to 10 years imprisonment.

    If you are concerned with this situation - as Q is - we urge you to contact the Department of Justice (ATF’s parent agency) by using the below OneClickPolitics link.

    ONECLICK LINK

    Additionally, we encourage you to reach out to the White House and ask President Trump to halt and rollback ATF’s efforts to issue arbitrary and capricious decisions affecting millions of legal gun owners.
    White House Comment Line:
    (202) 456-1111 / Email

    Residents from the following states and districts should reach out to their congressional representatives to let them know what they think of ATF’s actions:
    Kentucky - Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R) - https://www.mcconnell.senate.gov/public/
    (202) 224-2541 / Email

    Alabama – Sen. Richard Shelby (R) - Chairman of the Senate Committee on Appropriations and oversees funding of DOJ/ATF. https://www.shelby.senate.gov/public/
    (202) 224-5744 / Email

    Kansas – Sen. Jerry Moran (R) – Chairman of the Subcommittee on Commerce, Justice, Science, and Related Agencies (CJS) which is responsible for funding the ATF.
    (202) 224-6521 / Email

    South Carolina – Sen. Lindsey Graham (R) – Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, which is responsible for ATF oversight.
    (202) 224-5972 / Email

    Ohio 4th District - Congressman Jim Jordan (R) – Ranking member on the House Judiciary Committee which has jurisdiction over 2nd amendment issues. https://jordan.house.gov/
    (202) 225-2676 / Email

    If you are not from one these States, you can find your representative’s contact information here: https://www.contactingcongress.org/

    Q takes extreme care to remain in compliance with federal law, and we share your frustration with this development. We apologize for this situation and want to assure you that we, in conjunction with SB Tactical® and the National Rifle Association (NRA®), are doing everything in our power to resolve this matter amicably for all parties involved.


    Regards,


    Adam Johnson, CEO

  2. #2
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    That's odd. What makes the Honey Badger any different from any number of other "pistol" ARs?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoxyDave View Post
    That's odd. What makes the Honey Badger any different from any number of other "pistol" ARs?
    That’s what I want to know.
    -One Nation, Under God

    -"The bad news is time flies. The good news is you're the pilot." ~ Michael Althsuler

  4. #4
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    A lot of unknowns on this. I wonder if it's because the Q brace just looks like they put a strap on their stock, trimming a little off the bottom.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the ATF rules within the next 2-5 years that all Braces are now SBR's

  5. #5
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    That would be unfortunate. One of my favorite weapons is one I set up to travel with. It’s a pistol, making it an SBR and having to ask permission to travel with it would totally defeat its purpose.
    -One Nation, Under God

    -"The bad news is time flies. The good news is you're the pilot." ~ Michael Althsuler

  6. #6
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    People are saying it has to do with the LOP of this particular gun. A quick Google says if the LOP from the longest setting exceeds 13.5 inches it will be reclassified as an SBR.

    Don't know if this is the real reason but that's the rumor.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by UWone77 View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised if the ATF rules within the next 2-5 years that all Braces are now SBR's
    Completely agree.
    Last edited by MoxyDave; 6 October 2020 at 21:12.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by UWone77 View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised if the ATF rules within the next 2-5 years that all Braces are now SBR's
    Potentially sooner depending on the outcome of the election. That said, we all have to remember that the ATF doesn't set the "rules" or the law, they only publish their interpretation of the law. Some of those interpretations likely won't stand up well to court scrutiny, especially when they reverse their opinion and their own prior rulings can be used as evidence against their current position. I suspect one of the reasons you don't see a lot of court cases based on ATF rulings is that the ATF knows they'll likely lose and the fear of prosecution is more important to them than any actual prosecutions. Most charges for violating NFA are add-ons to much larger crime anyway. Anyone seen anyone charged for shouldering their brace? Of course you haven't because the ATF will be laughed out of the courtroom the first time it happens.

  9. #9
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    ATF Issues Cease & Desist for Honey Badger Pistol

    I feel that we need to push back on this hard. They have issued rules that we've (90%+ of us) - in the gun community - have followed. Basically, on their go-ahead, we've spent hundreds to thousands of dollars each purchasing and building pistols with parts that fit within their interpretations.

    While this is a little bit apples and oranges, the concept of "good faith" should apply here - the implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing is a general presumption that the parties to a contract (or agreement) will deal with each other honestly, fairly, and in good faith, so as to not destroy the right of the other party. For them to arbitrarily change a standard that has stood a number of years does devastating financial harm to us as citizens.

    Start getting on the horn to your federal government representative and tell them that this is not ok. Write, call, etc.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by apmcdaniel; 7 October 2020 at 03:32. Reason: Spelling/Grammar corrections

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoilerUp View Post
    Potentially sooner depending on the outcome of the election. That said, we all have to remember that the ATF doesn't set the "rules" or the law, they only publish their interpretation of the law. Some of those interpretations likely won't stand up well to court scrutiny, especially when they reverse their opinion and their own prior rulings can be used as evidence against their current position. I suspect one of the reasons you don't see a lot of court cases based on ATF rulings is that the ATF knows they'll likely lose and the fear of prosecution is more important to them than any actual prosecutions. Most charges for violating NFA are add-ons to much larger crime anyway. Anyone seen anyone charged for shouldering their brace? Of course you haven't because the ATF will be laughed out of the courtroom the first time it happens.
    You may find it interesting the ATF has never prosecuted anyone for an illegal SBR in the area you and I cover. They just confiscate them. Local and State LE have though.

  11. #11
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    if NFA laws weren't so stupid would a "pistol brace" even be a thing?

    I find a lot of things interesting about this ruling.
    1. I find it interesting that noveske hasn't said anything.
    2 I find it interesting that people think trump approved this (like he is intimately into what the ATF does)
    3. I find the amount of people cheering because they dislike Q and the owner pretty sad (although the comments asking why he doesn't just hold up a cardboard sign telling the ATF to shove off are pretty funny)
    4. I find the timing suspect. Why would the ATF want to paint the trump administration as anti-2A 30 days before a national election. I would think the timing would definitely keep some gun owners to stay home. I see it already in the 10000000 instagram posts and forum posts on these topics.
    5. This sucks for all the NJ gun owners that have been buying 26" "other firearm" non NFA items the last year or two by the boatloads. I see more new gun owners buying 12" barreled AR pistols with vertical fore grips than I do standard ARs. All it takes is them ruling all AR pistol braces as stocks and now these people created federal SBRs without the tax, and even worse ASSAULT WEAPONS under NJ law.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by UWone77 View Post
    You may find it interesting the ATF has never prosecuted anyone for an illegal SBR in the area you and I cover. They just confiscate them. Local and State LE have though.
    You raise a good point that state law sometimes mimics federal law so it's the local agencies you should be more concerned about than the ATF. And it isn't exactly uncommon for LEO to completely misunderstand the law they are enforcing. Knew a coworker who had his hunting rifle confiscated for the better part of a year because of ignorance of the law (can't remember if was local LEO or a Gamie). Coworker was completely within the law and the gubment eventually agreed, but that didn't change the fact that they held on to is rifle for a long time even though he didn't do anything wrong.

  13. #13
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    Mr Guns made a very valid point about WHO sent this letter out. Specifically who at the ATF... the latter part of the video below raises some interesting points.


  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by alamo5000 View Post
    Mr Guns made a very valid point about WHO sent this letter out. Specifically who at the ATF... the latter part of the video below raises some interesting points.

    that's what im banking on. they are doing this to hurt the president's re-election chances. trump messed up with the bump stock ban. and now they are re-feeding that fire.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by n4p226r View Post
    that's what im banking on. they are doing this to hurt the president's re-election chances. trump messed up with the bump stock ban. and now they are re-feeding that fire.
    And instead of letting those like Gun Policy take care of it, the gun community takes it like catnip.

    Did anyone notice the date of the letter Q received? Early August. How much of this is a Q attempt at marketing more drama? I mean, Q is on everyone’s lips at the moment instead of focus on winning an election.

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