AR's Have You Reached Saturation?

[Farva]

[SINNER]

Have you shot with the VCOG yet? I just took a huge loss on the one I had. Only Trijicon optic I have ever sold. I am not trying to bash your purchase but if like me you are expecting the best 1-6 optic out for it's price range I found that far from the case. It pains me to say that as Trijicon has been my go to optic for a decade. I have 5 ACOG's and 4 Accu-Points I would not sell for less than replacement cost but the VCOG just didn't work for me. Maybe they fixed some of the early issues but some I fear can not be fixed easily.

[JGifford]

Have you shot with the VCOG yet? I just took a huge loss on the one I had. Only Trijicon optic I have ever sold. I am not trying to bash your purchase but if like me you are expecting the best 1-6 optic out for it's price range I found that far from the case. It pains me to say that as Trijicon has been my go to optic for a decade. I have 5 ACOG's and 4 Accu-Points I would not sell for less than replacement cost but the VCOG just didn't work for me. Maybe they fixed some of the early issues but some I fear can not be fixed easily.

I decided to go ahead and bite when I saw them selling gently loved for $1850 on ARFcom. If I have to dump this one, I will wait about 5-6 months, as Trijicon just increased dealer cost AGAIN on them. I got mine for $1999 shipped. Dealer cost has gone from about $1500/ea to nearly $1900/ea for the "base" model with thumbscrews.

I have played with them a few times.

What issues did you personally have?

If you want optical superiority, the K16i/Z6i are the no-brainer choices. I played with those, too. They ARE the best 1-6X in the terms of optical performance.

So why did I go VCOG?

Because
I liked the keyed mount.
I liked the AA power.
I liked the added ruggedness to the housing (the area I live/hunt is rocky and steep. I have fallen with a rifle before. Safe handling means noone gets truly hurt, but the optic could indeed sustain damage.)

These were all advantages that I gave up: slightly better illumination, 30% more FOV for.

The weight of the VCOG and K16i is nearly identical when both are placed on QD mount solutions from the same company. As, within 2oz or so.

Anyway, why did YOU dump the VCOG, specifically?

[SINNER]

I decided to go ahead and bite when I saw them selling gently loved for $1850 on ARFcom. If I have to dump this one, I will wait about 5-6 months, as Trijicon just increased dealer cost AGAIN on them. I got mine for $1999 shipped. Dealer cost has gone from about $1500/ea to nearly $1900/ea for the "base" model with thumbscrews.

I have played with them a few times.

What issues did you personally have?

If you want optical superiority, the K16i/Z6i are the no-brainer choices. I played with those, too. They ARE the best 1-6X in the terms of optical performance.

So why did I go VCOG?

Because
I liked the keyed mount.
I liked the AA power.
I liked the added ruggedness to the housing (the area I live/hunt is rocky and steep. I have fallen with a rifle before. Safe handling means noone gets truly hurt, but the optic could indeed sustain damage.)

These were all advantages that I gave up: slightly better illumination, 30% more FOV for.

The weight of the VCOG and K16i is nearly identical when both are placed on QD mount solutions from the same company. As, within 2oz or so.

Anyway, why did YOU dump the VCOG, specifically?

You pretty much touched on the issues I had with the VCOG.

Optic is very dim. When I find myself choosing a Accupoint or Vortex Viper due to overcast conditions that is an issue.

The illumination is very dim in daylight also.

And by far the biggest issue I had was the diopter was not consistent through out the zoom range. If the reticle was sharp at 6x it was unusable at 1x. Ultimately I set it at 3x and lived with the compromise. I would imagine that is a result of the eye relief being unchanged regardless of magnification.

I often found myself frustrated when using the optic and just took a loss and traded it on some other items at a LGS. I truly think their are better options for half the cost of the VCOG.

[JGifford]

You pretty much touched on the issues I had with the VCOG.

Optic is very dim. When I find myself choosing a Accupoint or Vortex Viper due to overcast conditions that is an issue.

The illumination is very dim in daylight also.

And by far the biggest issue I had was the diopter was not consistent through out the zoom range. If the reticle was sharp at 6x it was unusable at 1x. Ultimately I set it at 3x and lived with the compromise. I would imagine that is a result of the eye relief being unchanged regardless of magnification.

I often found myself frustrated when using the optic and just took a loss and traded it on some other items at a LGS. I truly think their are better options for half the cost of the VCOG.

Interesting. I did note some diopter shift. As you said made reasonable by setting on 3x. Seemed similar to leupold mk6. Inferior to kahles. Glass on all I looked through was bright. Picture quality at least the equal of mk6.

I will know better when mine arrives and I can mess with it some.

of note...ive heard of one user who had diopter shift with k16i. Others who have had none with vcog. I wonder why. I have no answer.

I will say when swfa employee adjusted vcog. It worked great. Me? No. Kahles. I adjusted fine. I think maybe different technique (focus reticle on 6X at clouds or on 1x on wall or...?) Might be required. I do know my eotech and g33 was a fun beast to get focused well!

[CK 187]

What is this "too many" you speak of?

You'll know when you get there...

I beleive you mean that my wife will let me know when I get there

[WHSmithIV]

It is impossible to reach saturation with AR's or any guns in general. There is no such thing as saturation or too much ammo. It is far better to have more than needed than to need it and not have it. I hope I never need to kill people again. However, I do need to kill animals for their meat. That's OK with me. IF I do ever have to kill people again to protect fellow innocent citizens, I will do so with no qualms. I won't lose sleep for having done so either. So, I just need to make sure I have plenty of ammo on hand. If I run out, I do have a few goto guys who have 10's of thousands of rounds within a few miles of our home.

[GOST]

The last few post show a very good perspective. A lot of my shooting buddies have a lot more firearms than I do. Most of mine are family hand me downs that I love and shoot quite frequently.

For some reason my buddies will bring some of their firearms to me to take out when I go shoot. They even bring me ammo. I often shoot by myself and quite enjoy it. Then when I return their firearms they tell me what new they have acquired.

I like to have new stuff just as much as the next guy, but I don't like having firearms that I don't shoot. If I find myself wanting something different, I usaully sell something. My buddies have fallen victim to collecting and don't come and shoot nearly as much as they used to. Reminds me of some who like to aquire as many ladies as they can instead of loving the one they have.

[GOST]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion on how many firearms is sufficient. A lot of the people who tried to make a large payday after Sandy Hook are stuck with rifles that didn't sell, I know this cause I work with quite few guys who tried this. Cheaper than Dirt also tried to capitalize on other's misfortunes also.

There are some who want the most expensive rifle they can assemble. Then feed it the cheapest ammo they can find when they do shoot, which defeats the purpose of the nice barrel. It's like pumping 85 octane gas into a Ferrari. With all their money wrapped up in assembling this rifle they have little money for ammo, and the rifle is only as good as the one behind it.

Rob_S has a valid argument against the so-called whale jizz. Companies like KAC have phosphate coated BCG's with very extensive torture test. John Noveske also was a fan of mil-spec phosphate coatings as quoted from his Recoil interview. Also Rob_S's posting about whale jizz isn't new, he's posting about it for awhile.

[DutyUse]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion on how many firearms is sufficient. A lot of the people who tried to make a large payday after Sandy Hook are stuck with rifles that didn't sell, I know this cause I work with quite few guys who tried this. Cheaper than Dirt also tried to capitalize on other's misfortunes also.

There are some who want the most expensive rifle they can assemble. Then feed it the cheapest ammo they can find when they do shoot, which defeats the purpose of the nice barrel. It's like pumping 85 octane gas into a Ferrari. With all their money wrapped up in assembling this rifle they have little money for ammo, and the rifle is only as good as the one behind it.

Rob_S has a valid argument against the so-called whale jizz. Companies like KAC have phosphate coated BCG's with very extensive torture test. John Noveske also was a fan of mil-spec phosphate coatings as quoted from his Recoil interview. Also Rob_S's posting about whale jizz isn't new, he's posting about it for awhile.

When Failzero came out with their NiB BCG I scoffed and went on shooting my phosphate colts. When Nitride starting picking up I took a little notice but still went on with my BCM's. It wasn't until I seen the Fathom that I broke away from my love Affair with standard phosphate MPI/HPT milspecs. Of my last 4 purchased BCG's please point out this mythical whale jizz I keep hearing.



And collecting without shooting? Crappy ammo?

I have targets within walking distance of my front door. Sure I'm not shooting mk262 to train with everyday, but who could? Don't know why there is this theory out there that if you have nice guns and builds then you couldn't possibly own working guns aswell or must not be a "real" shooter.

If you have the funds to both collect and go shoot, then power to you.

Thanks I think we've hit the nail on the head with this comment here. Let's move back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Uffdaphil]

Lots of folks have the collecting bug. Jay Leno's garage is my personal fantasy. In real life I kept one great vehicle (Land Cruiser) and sold the sports car.

With guns I like to have as many as I can stuff in my safe- revolvers, pistols, lever, pump, WW2, and a slew of ARs. There is plenty of room in the firearms community for those who want just one good tool with which to become uber proficient and those who see guns as also functional art. Can we agree to not denigrate either view? When neither extreme impinges on the other, snark and insult just looks petty. From my day -Different Strokes.

[Deadwing]

I do my share of shooting. I don't get to go shooting as often as i'd like to, but i get out when i can. I've never had any formal training, but i'd love to attend some classes. My work schedule sucks, so that means i'm usually at work while these classes are going on. Competitive shooting is also something that interests me, but again, a shitty work schedule gets in the way of that as well.

I also do my share of collecting. I'll buy a gun, shoot the piss out of it, then buy something new. But instead of selling my previously new gun, i just keep it. I'm too lazy (especially now that I594 is in effect here) to play games trying to get a fair price selling it private party, and trade in value is usually something far below what i paid, so i keep it. And i'll eventually find my way back to it and shoot it again.

Above and beyond that, i like to tinker. I like to take my guns apart and learn their ins and outs and find out what makes them tick. Not just my ARs, but pistols, revolvers, shotguns, everything. I find working on my guns to be as enjoyable as shooting them. Maybe i'm just weird that way.

So, no. I haven't reached saturation yet. Maybe someday i will. I'd certainly have a lot more time and money on my hands.

[UWone77]

Necroposting here...

I thought about the saturation this weekend after doing some inventory, and breaking down a couple of rifles. So 4+ years later, where do you guys sit on this? Any builds planned for the year?

Since this original post, my gears/interests have shifted tremendously. You guys still into the firearms and ARs as much as you were back then? Or even more so now?

[alamo5000]

Necroposting here...

I thought about the saturation this weekend after doing some inventory, and breaking down a couple of rifles. So 4+ years later, where do you guys sit on this? Any builds planned for the year?

Since this original post, my gears/interests have shifted tremendously. You guys still into the firearms and ARs as much as you were back then? Or even more so now?

I was definitely late to the AR party. You guys walked me through my first one here. If cash were abundant I can say for sure that I am nowhere near 'done'.

Building an AR is one thing, but affording to feed all those mouths is another, and especially all that glass for optics makes it a longer journey for me. I definitely have champagne tastes.

I personally like the idea of walking through a build.

Not to mention I like things that go bang so I also definitely want firearms from other aspects of shooting as well. Bolt action, long range, benchrest, pistols, etc... I have a want list long enough to keep me broke for a very long time.

[Former11B]

Necroposting here...

I thought about the saturation this weekend after doing some inventory, and breaking down a couple of rifles. So 4+ years later, where do you guys sit on this? Any builds planned for the year?

Since this original post, my gears/interests have shifted tremendously. You guys still into the firearms and ARs as much as you were back then? Or even more so now?

I follow a USMC Scout/Sniper turned writer and one of his (many) verses that speaks to me is as follows:

“As I slumber in sand, I hear the near voice;
‘Put down your steel, old warrior, for short is the life left to live!’
‘I cannot’, I whispered, quiet and cold, desperate to survive, ‘My rifle is here to stay. Without it, I am nothing, for I know no other way.’”


I have other interests, but my main one, for the foreseeable future, is shooting (and everything that goes into it). I may not build a new rifle this year, but I already reconfigured one so much this year that the only things that carried over are the barrel and upper. But then again, who knows...I might build another one.

I’m trying to do more homestead type stuff this year and next, but I see my firearms as a part of that in a way...a well rounded level of preparedness, so to speak