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Thread: ATF-41P

  1. #1
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    ATF-41P

    We're days away from the final action date but I figured I'd post this anyways for discussion sake. Below is a link to a thread on the Hide regarding bill ATF-41P. According to this legislation, they will redefine who is deemed "responsible" in terms of NFA item ownership. It will also force everyone to obtain a CLEO signature, even with a trust. Just another left-wing attempt to "suppress" gun rights....

    http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=541&f=5521&t=14333522

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    At this point I think most of us have done what we can as far as leaving comments and feedback. Kind of a wait and see now... what are they going to do?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh S. View Post
    We're days away from the final action date but I figured I'd post this anyways for discussion sake. Below is a link to a thread on the Hide regarding bill ATF-41P. According to this legislation, they will redefine who is deemed "responsible" in terms of NFA item ownership. It will also force everyone to obtain a CLEO signature, even with a trust. Just another left-wing attempt to "suppress" gun rights....

    http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=541&f=5521&t=14333522
    Perhaps it's semantics, but this is not legislation, it is a regulatory rule making... the effect may not be different, but it is. At this point it is pretty much a wait and see what they are actually going to do... they had almost 10k comments they must respond to in the final rule and there are already organizations teed to file suit, on a number of procedural issues.

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    Even if it ends up being a crock of hooey, I'm dropping an efile Form 1 for an SBR a little later tonight, for just in casies. Even got the wife's blessing, so yeah!

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    If stuff is in process right now (already submitted) what would be the odds that they could retroactively change the rules and deny based on new criteria?

    Or is it one of those 'the government can do whatever it wants' kind of things?

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    Quote Originally Posted by alamo5000 View Post
    If stuff is in process right now (already submitted) what would be the odds that they could retroactively change the rules and deny based on new criteria?

    Or is it one of those 'the government can do whatever it wants' kind of things?
    ATF has already stated that things submitted before any final action is taken would be grandfathered... of course they could change their minds, but that would open themselves up to more litigation

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdhill View Post
    ATF has already stated that things submitted before any final action is taken would be grandfathered... of course they could change their minds, but that would open themselves up to more litigation
    *WHEW!*

    I didn't know that... good to know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alamo5000 View Post
    *WHEW!*

    I didn't know that... good to know.
    Yeah, well, they also said you could shoulder the Sig brace. Some pack of mouthbreathing mall-ninjas will poke it with a stick until we get it taken away again.

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    Stupid..

    Want a few nfa items but missed the boat I guess and WA with the dumb form 1 situation...

    Oh well I'll just troll the nfa threads and drool as usual..

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    Here's an update and it AIN'T good... Linky

    Require background checks for people trying to buy some of the most dangerous weapons and other items through a trust or corporation. The National Firearms Act imposes restrictions on sales of some of the most dangerous weapons, such as machine guns and sawed-off shotguns. But because of outdated regulations, individuals have been able to avoid the background check requirement by applying to acquire these firearms and other items through trusts, corporations, and other legal entities. In fact, the number of these applications has increased significantly over the years—from fewer than 900 applications in the year 2000 to more than 90,000 applications in 2014. ATF is finalizing a rule that makes clear that people will no longer be able to avoid background checks by buying NFA guns and other items through a trust or corporation.

    If anyone thinks 41P won't happen, this should change your mind. Get those applications in people!!! Hopefully the comments made by NFA branch will hold, that applications already pending will be grandfathered.

    Can't find specifically, but others are saying TOMORROW. If so, byebye final SBR
    Last edited by SwissyJim; 4 January 2016 at 19:54.
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    Jim
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    Can you not get a CLEO signature Jim? I can but it still doesn't make it easier... I wonder if there is a postmarked date?

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    I believe I can, but it's the principle, dammit!

    And... if everyone has to be fingerprinted and checked... my bro-in-law is on mine and he's in Utah. Makes it hard to do things easily and speedily. Just sucks that others in a non-signing CLEO are are going to royally be screwed over this.

    Worst is... how many crimes have been committed by NFA registered items/users? two? This won't change anything OTHER than screw with (probably) the most honest and law abiding members of the firearms community. Screw him.
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    Jim
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    Reading that link, it looks like that is the only material change, which was in-progress already. So, grandstanding and showmanship for political points, but no real changes aside from requiring a background check for those on a trust. IIRC, the last time a legally owned NFA item was used in major crime, it was owned by a LEO. Frankly, they should be able to institute background checks without requiring LEO sign-off and that wouldn't be too much of a hurdle. Or am I missing something?

    Not real thrilled about having 200 new ATF agents, but that will have to be funded through a budget first, so is quite likely to not happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SwissyJim View Post
    Here's an update and it AIN'T good... Linky

    Require background checks for people trying to buy some of the most dangerous weapons and other items through a trust or corporation. The National Firearms Act imposes restrictions on sales of some of the most dangerous weapons, such as machine guns and sawed-off shotguns. But because of outdated regulations, individuals have been able to avoid the background check requirement by applying to acquire these firearms and other items through trusts, corporations, and other legal entities. In fact, the number of these applications has increased significantly over the years—from fewer than 900 applications in the year 2000 to more than 90,000 applications in 2014. ATF is finalizing a rule that makes clear that people will no longer be able to avoid background checks by buying NFA guns and other items through a trust or corporation.
    Seriously??? Makes it sound like we don't go through background checks when using a trust. I know they check my damn name every time I buy something.

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    I would also like clarification. As far as I know, the only new hurdle will be CLEO sign off and fingerprinting. I have always had to pass a NICS / 4473 with all my NFA Items. Ie, you still have to buy the lower, or if you tranfer a NFA item, it still oes through a FFL. Am I missing something? Is there a way to bypass a background check that I am unaware of?

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