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Thread: Aim Surplus AR Foundation Kit
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13 July 2015, 13:04 #16WEVO Spell Checker
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13 July 2015, 13:24 #17
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13 July 2015, 13:48 #18
I think you missed the point of my post. Quality costs, plain and simple. The cost savings have to come from somewhere. Personally, I would never trust a $45 BCG in my AR15.
Since you see this as a "very good package for the price," do you own one of these receiver sets and BCGs? And have you run a few thousand rounds through it? This is a serious question. I'm not trying to poke fun or discredit you.
Perhaps it's just a glut of inventory Anderson wants to move, so they're willing to make very little profit on them. But when uppers/lowers cost half as much as Aero Precision, I start to worry a little bit. Toss in a BCG for half as much as some of the cheaper ones go for, and (in my opinion) it's too good to be true.Will - Owner of Arisaka LLC - http://www.arisakadefense.com
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13 July 2015, 14:36 #19
I think the surplus is from the AIM Surplus side. As Anderson ramped up their marketing they sold lower and upper receivers in bulk at really good dealer prices. Keep in mind that it's more of a buyers market now. I recall about a year ago that Anderson would sell lots of 100 lower receivers to dealers at $37 each (it may have been a little less). I have one of their receivers and it is certainly on par with other quality forged receivers out there. Fit and finish is great.
As for the BCG, I don't know. I suspect it's equivalent to the Pegasus Defense BCG I had in my last rifle. That I got on sale for $105 as I recall with free shipping. Never had a problem with it. So, I'm guessing AIM Surplus is reducing surplus inventory at a fraction over cost. If I had the cash, I'd buy a set even though i don't really need it right now.Freedom is NEVER Free. We have to work to protect it and even be willing to die to protect it.
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13 July 2015, 15:50 #20
So in other words, the BCG is an unknown. No data on it. No round counts. Queue the people saying, "if it fails, at least it was cheap!"
:)Will - Owner of Arisaka LLC - http://www.arisakadefense.com
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13 July 2015, 15:57 #21
Yes, the BCG is an unknown. As I posted, you can buy the complete receiver set direct from Anderson right now on sale for $95 (plus shipping). Andersons site says here to Idaho with UPS brings the total to $113.40 with $18.41 shipping for the receiver set. We don't know who makes the BCG. On the other hand, since the offer has free shipping, you can't really go very wrong with having the complete BCG for the $45 even as just spares.
Update:
I took a look at AIM's website. It states that it is an AIM BCG. They sell it by itself for $75. I'm guessing they don't actually make it and if they don't, finding out who does could be difficult.Last edited by WHSmithIV; 13 July 2015 at 16:07.
Freedom is NEVER Free. We have to work to protect it and even be willing to die to protect it.
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13 July 2015, 16:10 #22
Sorry, but that's really strange logic. It's an unknown. $45 is not pennies. I'd rather put the $45 towards a BCM (or other known brand) BCG, but that's just me.
Will - Owner of Arisaka LLC - http://www.arisakadefense.com
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13 July 2015, 16:12 #23
You can argue its cheapness all day. Its still not the same as say a San Tan Tactical or a Rainier Arms mod 3.... Lets run 10K rouds though each... If you make it all the way though the test you can color me impressed...
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13 July 2015, 16:20 #24
There you go. Lots of people can say that it's cheap and works fine for them... because it's collecting dust in the safe, broken out twice a year for the 200 rounds a year they shoot through it.
For the most part I'm in the a lower is a lower as long as it's in spec. BCG's however are all over the place.
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13 July 2015, 16:22 #25
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13 July 2015, 16:27 #26
I have a phobia about this stuff to be honest.
It's not that I want to have the most awesome looking AR around, I just want to buy quality parts. I could easily have several $600 AR15's but in the end I would rather buy something awesome that I will like and trust a whole lot more.
The problem with AR's though is you have the ridiculously expensive stuff that really doesn't add to much of anything, but then you have the overly cheap 'junk'. Finding that stuff in the middle that is quality but a good value is where I'm at.
I shied away from buying a lot of stuff before because I was hesitant to jump on stuff just to say I have it.
I used billet in my build but I am curious about forged. That said my main thing now that limits me is cash. I have a friend who has like 5 AR's. They are marred up, spray painted, they look like crap. But he's soooo proud that he has FIVE of them.
I am not like that at all. I want 5 AR's but I might have to settle for two because that's what I would get spending the same amount of cash.
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13 July 2015, 17:06 #27
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13 July 2015, 17:18 #28
I'll try to dispense with something for the difference between billet and forged. Ounce for ounce, machined forged 7075 aluminum is stronger than machined billet 7075 aluminum (I worked in an aluminum factory - Nordic Aluminum - for some years). To make up for this, billet parts will usually have some extra strengthening machined into them. For forging, the metal is compressed into the machinable block of material. That compression creates grain lines in the metal .
When aluminum is melted in the foundry, it is melted into round bars a foot in diameter and generally about 10 ft long. Either billets (blocks) are cut from this bar and re-melted to be forged OR, they are machined directly.
So, what actually happens? In the re-melting and forging, the melted metal is pressed into a block under pressure that is then cooled for later machining. The advantage of this is that you can feed the entire 10ft. long bar into a furnace like is done for extruding aluminum and simply send the molten aluminum into pressure forms for the desired size block to be machined and you can mass produce thousands of blocks quickly. The pressure used for forging blocks aligns the aluminum molecules into grain lines (smaller than the eye can see) and because of that, the alignment of the molecules provides for some extra strength. For the billet block, you are cutting from that 10 ft. rod into block sizes. It's more time consuming and more expensive to do so. Those 10 ft. rods weren't made under pressure either so there are no grain lines created by the pressure of forging.
The overall difference is simply that the forged block is a little bit stronger but, because it has those grain lines inherent in the block, it's finish will be just a tiny bit rougher (and we're damn near getting close to microscopic here). The billet block that was cut direct from the rod will have a smoother surface for the machined part.
All anodizing does is align the surface molecules of either the machined billet block or the forged block after it's been machined in order to provide surface hardness to generally 1/10,000th of an inch. That's an electrolytic process and for color, generally a dye is introduced into the acid solution used for the anodizing. Anodizing with no dye will still change the surface color of the aluminum and that happens due to oxidation during the electrolytic process of anodizing.
So, the bottom line is that the forging process is cheaper for mass production of machinable blocks of aluminum, and the forged blocks are actually a bit stronger than the the billet blocks cut from the base rod. Their finish won't be quite as satin smooth is all.
This in no way detracts from billet parts. The strength difference is very small. Functionally, both are equivalent.
I do not see the point in paying double or triple or more for a metal part just because the surface of it is a little more satin smooth than a perfectly machined part from a forged block that is metalurgically actually stronger.
My rifle has billet receivers. It has a matched set of Phase 5 receivers. My (almost complete) 7.62x39 pistol has a forged Anderson receiver. Visually, it is next to impossible to really see any difference from over about 1-2 ft. If you look close, you can see the difference in surface finish, but you have to be REAL close. I can feel a slight tactile difference too with my fingers. It's a very small difference, but it's there and it's only because of the difference in the two metal manufacturing methods.
Just a side note. NEVER buy anything that is cast made. What happens with a cast part is that the molten metal is poured into a mold then simply let to cool or even cooled fairly quickly. This is REALLY bad for most gun parts. Because no pressure was involved to forge the part (and that certainly wouldn't work very well for something like a receiver either - they NEED to be machined from a block), there are stronger and weaker areas in the casting. No uniformity at all.
What a billet cut does provide is a better finish to the aluminum. Since the forging aligns the metal toFreedom is NEVER Free. We have to work to protect it and even be willing to die to protect it.
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13 July 2015, 17:29 #29Freedom is NEVER Free. We have to work to protect it and even be willing to die to protect it.
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13 July 2015, 17:51 #30
Fairly certain AIM's BCGs are made by Toolcraft. I'd rather have a JP LMOS for a hard use rifle, but the AIM will serve the majority of shooters just fine.