Rifle Safes....Who's got what?

[Beaux]

First off, any safe given enough time can be broken into. Safes are a deterrent and properly secured very efficient to fend of criminals. I have an American Security BF6032 and a Bighorn 7144. The AS is an excellent safe and one of the best you can buy. I house my treasured firearms, records and other valuables in the AS. The Bighorn (made by Rhino) is well made but doesn't have the same reputation as the AS. I bought it because I just ran out of room.

As far as price, the AS is of course more apples to apples but I don't think you can go wrong with a Bighorn either, it's a lot of safe for the money. I got a heck of a deal on my Bighorn from a local gun shop when I picked it up myself and waved delivery. The AS is just shy of 900 lbs but smaller than the Bighorn which comes in over 1000 lbs.

[Army Chief]

I don't have a "safe" by American standards, but I do have the requisite German standard gun locker, which is much the same thing on a slightly less onerous scale. Still thick gauge steel, but it uses a keyed locking system -- and the weight isn't quite so hard on the floor. I actually prefer the cabinet to a safe, but I suppose some of this all depends upon where you're living, too.

AC

[tracksol]

I've been looking at safes ever since I bought my first firearm 6 months ago. I really don't think I'm going to become and avid gun collector, or have many firearms. The maximum amount of firearms I plan on having is two AR's, 3 pistols and 1 shotgun. Of course, having some space to store family valuables and important documents would be nice.

I have yet to find a gun safe that is small enough for my arsenal but with the features of the large ones. Any recommendations?

[federalist22]

Safes are nice, if you have the dehumidifier, because they can also house savings bonds, marriage/birth/death certificates, DD214s and military docs, coin/stamp/ball card collections, photo negatives/tapes/media, jewelry, etc.

Sure, any safe can be broken into, but it takes "time" and with a high-pitch siren sounding, and in my area LE is very fast to respond, it would be difficult to cut/knock it open or to drag my 1000+ lb. behemoth up 10 steps out of my walk-out basement.

Another lesson on safes--Buy the size you will need in the future because you will kick yourself later if you have to upgrade.

[airborneski]

Stack on 33 gun fire safe. Suits my needs, no matter what safe you get it wont hold as much as they say. Cheap price about 450.00 at dicks.

[Army Chief]

Stack on 33 gun fire safe. Suits my needs, no matter what safe you get it wont hold as much as they say. Cheap price about 450.00 at dicks.

That is effectively what I've got (in a German version with a slightly more sophisticated locking mechanism), and to be honest, I actually prefer this to a conventional gun safe. These cabinets can still be anchored to the floor or wall, still buy you some time, and still keep unauthorized persons from accessing the firearms, but come in a form factor that is a lot more realistic, given a military lifestyle (i.e. frequent PCS relocations).

The price of admission is certainly reasonable enough -- and in Germany, every firearms owner is required by law to have this level of protection in his home, no questions asked.

AC

[alpha.kilo]

I bought my safe about six years ago. I did a lot of research before I bought. Here is what I remember:

> The best indicator of safe quality is safe weight. I know it sounds simplistic, but a medium sized 30 c.f. safe should weigh about 1000 pounds. You don't want your safe less than 1000 pounds. Steel is heavy and expensive. It is a good layman's measurement.

>Safe companies change hands, or at least management paradigms quite often. So what is the best safe brand and model and/or best value five years ago may not be today. For example, six years ago I bought a Champion top of the line "Crown" model weighing about 1170 pounds empty. Today that model is significantly lighter in weight for the same size because the company has changed hands and now uses thinner steel in search of cost savings. You need to do some research. A National Security Safe bought in 1988 is definitely not the same safe if bought today. They were possibly the best you could buy in 1988 for home safes. No longer.

>Speaking of the total safe weight, look for a thick, heavy door. You want a 6 full inches. I wouldn't settle for less than 5 inches. The door can be made of composite. That's OK. But you should check to see exactly what the composite is. It should contain a high quantity of elements like Kevlar. In any case make sure your safe door has a glass relocker. That is your protection against rough handling to break into it or to drill into it.

>If the company will not give you specific information, such as what exactly their door material is made of, that should be a big red flag. You may assume the worse.

>The door is a signifcant point of weakness in a gun safe. You want to preferably have a thick double edge (two stepped edges to prevent prying) door with big "active" bolts. 1 1/2 inch steel bolts that all retract into the door is what you want. And alot of them. For a medium sized safe (31X66 in) it should have 18 bolts. This prevents the pry opening that you may have seen displayed on "YouTube."

>The second point of weakness is the back of the safe, where the steel is usually thinner than the sides or door. That is why you put the back of the safe up against good wall and lag it to the floor. Even if it weighs 1300 or 1400 pounds. Lag it into concrete.

>The fire rating on safes is tricky, and sometimes deceiving. It is not as important as to who does the fire rating (UL, Whitehall) as to "how" it was performed. Many safe companies will specifiy that their safe enter the furnace on its back at room temperature. Once in the furnace, the burners are ignited for a slow rise to the max temperature, which it may endure for only a very short time. But they "start" the clock when the they open the furnace door. Very deceiving. This type of test will yield much more favorable results than if the safe was sitting upright (like in your house) and enters the furnace at or near max temperature. Where the recording instrument is placed inside of the test safe is also crucial. A quality test will place the instrument near the top of the safe, where temperatures are highest. If the safe company will not email you their crtieria for their fire rating, that is another red flag.

>One way to improve the "fire rating" or better yet "survivaility" of your safe is to place it on an exterior wall. The wall will colapse and let the heat out before the temperature inside a high quality safe will reach 344 degrees, the temperature that paper chars.

> When you shop, simple mechanical features are best. For instance, when I was in the market, Ft KNOX made a very good, very heavy (and expensive) safe. But the internal door mechanism was so complicated that any small bit of foriegn material that got into the gearing, such as when moving, could completely lock up the entire door. A simple, heavy duty mechanism is best.

>There was a previous posting about electronic locks and an EMP event. While that poster was absolutely accurate, there is another element to balance that concern with. Electronic locks, while vulnerable to an EMP, are also much harder to pick. We have several of our detectives who have gone though lock picking schools. They have been able to pick several safe locks of the rotating mechanical variety (after we have obtained a warrant, of course) with no damage to the safe. None of our guys have ever been successful with a Sargeant & Greenleaf Electronic lock. So that is something to consider.

>Do your research and good luck. Buying a safe gives you huge peace of mind when you are not home and is worth every penny.

AK

[crrider]

I have the same Ft Knox as Federalist22 and could not be happier with my choice. Well worth the cost and as was said earlier, pick the size you want and then get a size bigger cause there's always stuff you can keep in your safe.

[mitchrapp]

Liberty fatboy jr. is a hard thing to look past. 48 gun capacity and right around 1000 dollars, combine that with 45 minutes @ 1200 and its a pretty good combo. Just my .02

[usbp379]

The Ft Knox M2 looks like a great safe for the money. The body is 3/16" and the door is 3/8" standard.

The safe uses a solid plate door rather than a composite or reinforced fire door so the fire rating is a bit lower than the Defender, Protector, etc. But, in my mind at least, what is lost in fire is made up for in good old fashioned steel. Ft Knox says the M2 is a no frills production safe so it only comes in a few sizes and interior choices and is only available in two colors.

Price in a 6030 should be right around $2000.


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[Aegis]

I 2nd Federalist's recommendation on Steve's safes. Bought my Ft. Knox Executive from him in 1995.

He travels to PA (does the big outdoor show in Harrisburg) prices can't be beat, and will give you solid advice.

Steve won't try to upsale you on the safe. Tell him your needs and he'll make a solid recommendation.

703-573-4394 or 1-888-416-7226

[dduck44]

Here's my evolution and conclusion;
1.) I went on line to various gun related sites and looked at dozens of posts.
2.) Watched the Youtube video where a couple of average guys brute force a typical gun safe open in about 10 minutes.
3.) Determined that Sturdy and Fort Knox were both good choices and "built" them online-by the time they are armored and have stainless steel added for torch protection you're in the $6000-$10000 range
4.) Did more research and then went to look at real safes-UL rated-safes on craigslist, most gun safes are considered RSCs or Residential Storage Containers. UL rated safes are designated TR for torch protection, TL for tool protection
and TX for explosives. They also have a number rating of 15, 30 or 60 and some have a "x 6" which means all 6 sides are the same level of protection. A TRTL 15 x 6 will withstand at least 15 minutes of a steady and vigorous torch and tool
attack by someone.

I saw a TL15 for $2000 OBO and have seen TRTL 30 x 6 going for around $4000-these weigh in at about 5000lbs.
Buy a used high security safe and rework the inside, you'll get twice the safe for half the money.

[Hmac]

I have a couple of these good old Stack Ons. I just need them to keep the guns away from the kids. The money I save over an actual safe of good quality I spend on an insurance rider.

[KevinBLC]

I have a couple of these good old Stack Ons. I just need them to keep the guns away from the kids. The money I save over an actual safe of good quality I spend on an insurance rider.

I'm currently looking for a new safe that holds ~20 rifles. I want room down the road to expand... but I'm not sure I'm sold on basically a lock box... and using the savings on insurance. I don't want to replace my guns if they are stolen and into the hands of criminals out there. I think we should protect our guns from the hands of burglars more than having insurance replace them. Just my 2 cents.

[usbp379]

Buy a used high security safe and rework the inside, you'll get twice the safe for half the money.

Weight considerations make these unrealistic for the average home owner as does the size. I recently looked at a used TRTL safe that was 72x40 on the outside. Weight was over two tons. The interior was relatively small since the walls were probably a good four or six inches thick. Converting to a gun safe interior wouldn't yield anything bigger than probably
20-25 cubic feet of storage space.

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